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Random mutations?!!!

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by gtrsgrls, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. gtrsgrls

    gtrsgrls Member

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    I was just wondering how people say that our bodies and our world are all a product of random mutation. I mean, when we get cut, our bodies heal ourselves. Now I'm sure you could give me some complex answer as to why this happens. But even then, the question remains, "why do those certain things heal the cuts on our bodies?" You could keep giving me answers to questions like these, but I still have to ask, "Why does that do what it does." For instance, I could ask why bleach removes stains from clothers. And you could tell me, "The chemicals inside it remove the stain." But then I would ask, "Why do those chemicals remove the stain?" And you could probably give me another answer. But again I could ask "Why does that do that?" And if you keep asking the "Why does that do that?" question, than you're either gonna find yourself beliving in God or going crazy.
     
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  2. lunamoth

    lunamoth Will to love

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    Well, random mutation alone is not sufficient to produce humans from ancestral forms. It also requires selective pressures from the environment, which results in a non-random process. And if you keep asking 'how' something happens, as all your questions above do, a scientific approach can keep giving you, or at least productively looking for, answers.

    Now, if you ask for meaning to why we exist, then you are right. Science can't touch that one.

    cheers,
    lunamoth
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    You remind me of the kids when they were young, and went through the "Why does....." Phase; I had forgotten all about it!:D

    I think you will find that there are some on this forum who could answer your question; it is, I am sure a question of knowledge, but not something I know about .

    It is all too simple to fill the blank gaps with "God".
     
  4. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Or we can say "We don't know... YET", which is a much more intellectually honest response than saying "God did it" or going crazy.
     
  5. gtrsgrls

    gtrsgrls Member

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    I'm just saying if you keep asking the "Why does...." question if will eventually come back to God. Just try me.
     
  6. evearael

    evearael Well-Known Member

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    How does the body heal?

    Well, first take classes in biology to understand how the body heals itself. Then take biochemistry courses to understand the interactions between chemicals and cells. Then take chemistry courses to understand the interactions between and within chemicals. Then take physics classes to understand the interactions of the atoms within chemicals.

    From my perspective... God created a beautiful universe and crafted every law and process that dictates how it runs: from respiration to relativity. He blessed us with minds and curiosity. So, don't feel threatened by science, if anything embrace it, because it leads to a deeper appreciation with the beauty of... well... everything. :)
     
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  7. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    ...or you might LEARN something.
     
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  8. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Only when you get to a point where the only other alternative is "I don't know" and you don't want to admit ignorance.
     
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  9. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Easy. What happens to an animal if it gets injured and doesn't stop the blood loss or heal the wound? It dies. Does it get to breed? No.
    The reason we have an immune system and the ability to regenerate tissues is because long ago our ancient ancestors had random mutations that were beneficial because they healed the organism (note: very simplified). Those animals lived and bred, while the creatures that got injured and bled to death didn't breed.
     
  10. c0da

    c0da Active Member

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    Oh, I sucked at biology. Things heal themselves because not healing means chance of infection making more pain and pain is bad.
     
  11. pandamonk

    pandamonk Active Member

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    maybe what you find yourself doing are one of the same thing :p I don't know why anyone would believe in God because you keep asking why. It's childs play, and would not make me believe in God. I'd give you the answers to the questions the first time you asked then leave you to your childish games, because i have answered your question.
     
  12. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Basically, you're asking why existence is the way it is. And you're assuming that it must be because "God" made it this way.

    But the truth is that we don't know why existence is the way it is. And not knowing does not logically mean that there must be a God involved. Not knowing is just not knowing.
     
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  13. pandamonk

    pandamonk Active Member

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    Thank you!
     
  14. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    I think it has been said very well already that applying what we don't know to god is a complete fallacy. I would also like to point out that some may see infinite regress as impossible, I don't see it that way. So your original point becomes pointless.
     
  15. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    If we keep asking you the 'Why does...' question, when you get to a place where you don't know the answer anymore, you will eventually come back to god. Someone who knows a bit more about the sort of questions you're asking may well not. But you're right in one aspect...it does drive me crazy when people insist that everything comes back to god just because they don't have another answer.
     
  16. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    Being unable to comprehend a problem or produce an answer to a question does not automatically point to a god. And even if it did, it most certainly does not point explicitly to the Christian god.

    Don't confuse a lack of evidence for something as evidence for something else, especially when the lack of evidence is only imagined.
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Selective pressures only eliminates what isnt working in an enviroment - it dosnt create anything. If you want a human naturalistically you ultimatley need random mutations to create the DNA that produces the human.
    It is still a random process, there is nothing guiding the next mutation to create a new or improved feature, if a mutation did come along and add or improve a feature it is still a random chance event.
    Deleting corrupted information is not the same as creating new useful information to advance a working system.



    Actuallly no, in many case' its just saying i dont want God to be the answer so i hope in the future there will be an athiestic one.
    It just shows you need faith in athiesm, because you dont have an answer but you believe their will be one.
     
  18. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I don't see how you can judge motivations like that. And you make it sound like the fact that there are people saying that we don't know yet is proof there is a god!

    besides, the fact we don't know yet has been said many times in the past, and it has always been explained by science.

    Back in the days before we understood nuclear fusion, people had no idea what made the sun glow. There were some people who said "Oh, that's easy, God does it". There were some other people who said, "We don't know...YET." Guess who was right?
     
  19. mr.guy

    mr.guy crapsack

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    It doesn't even come close. Try again.
    Please, share how you came to this conclusion. The entertainment value will be worth my left nut (that's right, the shriveled, wrinkly one).
     
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  20. Quoth The Raven

    Quoth The Raven Half Arsed Muse

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    And the theists who say,'we don't know...yet' don't want God to be the answer because? It's not just atheists that don't blindly attribute what they can't understand to god.
     
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