Raised right

[February-Saturday]

Faith based reasoning has not harmed me. Unfortunately it may harm others.

Faith-based reasoning has long-reaching effects that might not be immediately noticeable. It's a drop of poison in your well of knowledge that can contaminate the whole pool, undercutting your reason on anything even tangentially related to whatever you have faith in and spreading through your mind like a disease.

Once that cognitive sleight is in there, it can be hard to shake free of and it damages everything it touches. In the wake of the ignorance and delusion faith causes, unintended harm is inevitable, although rarely apparent to the faithful.

It's not that complicated. Crippling your reason makes you unreasonable, and being unreasonable almost universally leads to tangible harm and loss.

 

[Vinayaka]

Religion? Wow, that's some generalisation.

 

[Mock Turtle]

See what it has done to this girl (note the crucifix).



(Some years back she unsuspectingly advertised a party on Facebook and several hundred turned up to trash her, and her parents' home - but she became a model off the back of the publicity.)

 

[King Phenomenon]

Faith-based reasoning has long-reaching effects that might not be immediately noticeable. It's a drop of poison in your well of knowledge that can contaminate the whole pool, undercutting your reason on anything even tangentially related to whatever you have faith in and spreading through your mind like a disease.

Once that cognitive sleight is in there, it can be hard to shake free of and it damages everything it touches. In the wake of the ignorance and delusion faith causes, unintended harm is inevitable, although rarely apparent to the faithful.

It's not that complicated. Crippling your reason makes you unreasonable, and being unreasonable almost universally leads to tangible harm and loss.

I disagree. As far as Reason goes I accept all scientific facts. I know God exists and I put 100% faith in that. I don't have the words to describe God fully to anyone because he's beyond my understanding. That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Religion? Wow, that's some generalisation.

I didn't want to post all the nitty-gritty details as to all the religions, beliefs, ideas and philosophies etc.

 

[syo]

Do you think religion harms children?

Only if it's the new testament, in my opinion. But again, the new testament is a cult. In my personal opinion.

 

[Quintessence]

I didn't want to post all the nitty-gritty details as to all the religions, beliefs, ideas and philosophies etc.

Out of curiosity, if you didn't want to acknowledge the heterogeneity of religion, what was your thought process for asking a question that is prone to inaccurate generalization like "do you think religion harms children?" Very little can be said about "religion" that is accurate without over-generalizing, particularly on a topic like that. It can't be discussed without getting into "all the nitty-gritty details."

 

[King Phenomenon]

Out of curiosity, if you didn't want to acknowledge the heterogeneity of religion, what was your thought process for asking a question that is prone to inaccurate generalization like "do you think religion harms children?" Very little can be said about "religion" that is accurate without over-generalizing, particularly on a topic like that. It can't be discussed without getting into "all the nitty-gritty details."

I figured people would have used common sense when they read my post and would have known what religions I was referring to due to the issues that are sensitive that I brought up

 

[Riders]

Do you think religion harms children? If I had to make an educated guess, if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around. Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?

It's a political idea as well as religious. I have heard of conservative Atheists who went to my church the UU church which is the most liberal church on the planet but still they have Atheists and others who claim the conservative side because of politics. They also disagree with abortion and homosexuality.

Even though the familiar idea about me around here is being the queen of the liberals, actually personally I am conservative when it comes to abortion. I believe it is murder unless it comes by rape or child molestation or life and death situation. It's wrong if it's not by one of those things.

However legally I am still pro choice, the Mother , the woman should make the decision, it's her body and her right.
She has the right to make the wrong decision if it is for her body provided not under the circumstances I mentiond, it's the wrong decision but it's her decision.

 

[King Phenomenon]

It's a political idea as well as religious. I have heard of conservative Atheists who went to my church the UU church which is the most liberal church on the planet but still they have Atheists and others who claim the conservative side because of politics. They also disagree with abortion and homosexuality.

Even though the familiar idea about me around here is being the queen of the liberals, actually personally I am conservative when it comes to abortion. I believe it is murder unless it comes by rape or child molestation or life and death situation. It's wrong if it's not by one of those things.

However legally I am still pro choice, the Mother , the woman should make the decision, it's her body and her right.
She has the right to make the wrong decision if it is for her body provided not under the circumstances I mentiond, it's the wrong decision but it's her decision.

Yeah I know theres atheists who disagree with those things. So women who get abortions aside from the reasons that you say are ok would be just as offended as a gay person would be by someone saying that homosexuality is a sin. So to not offend anybody you would have to say abortion is wrong for me.

 

[Quintessence]

I figured people would have used common sense when they read my post and would have known what religions I was referring to due to the issues that are sensitive that I brought up

Whose common sense is that?

I don't really have any idea what religions you're referring to without making a whole host of assumptions that are not appropriate for me to make. Why not just name them and be specific? Or better yet, reference specific teachings and practices considering these vary even within specific religious traditions?

My "common sense" is to not make assumptions, particularly when there is little of that to be had on a subject whose coverage in public education is almost entirely absent. If one is lucky, there is perhaps a couple of weeks spent on discussing superficial aspects of religious diversity at the K-12 level, and it doesn't get any better at the college-level.

I have no idea how to approach "does religion harm children" other than to point out the absurdity of the question. One might as well as "does culture harm children" as it is very nearly the same question. Neither culture nor the subset of it we call "religion" is the direct instrument of harms. It's the human persons doing the harms, not the abstract and academic categories we fabricate under such headings. So then I ask, what practices, specifically, are doing harm? What abstract category we call it is irrelevant, honestly. Others in the thread have already pretty much pointed this out, though, I suppose...

 

[King Phenomenon]

@Quintessence

I've answered you're questions below

Whose common sense is that?

Many I presume haha

Why not just name them and be specific?

Maybe I will next time haha

I have no idea how to approach "does religion harm children" other than to point out the absurdity of the question.

Haha

Neither culture nor the subset of it we call "religion" is the direct instrument of harms. It's the human persons doing the harms, not the abstract and academic categories we fabricate

Well you just answered it.

So then I ask, what practices, specifically, are doing harm? ..

Specifics were homosexuality and abortion

 

[King Phenomenon]

Whose common sense is that?

I don't really have any idea what religions you're referring to without making a whole host of assumptions that are not appropriate for me to make. Why not just name them and be specific? Or better yet, reference specific teachings and practices considering these vary even within specific religious traditions?

My "common sense" is to not make assumptions, particularly when there is little of that to be had on a subject whose coverage in public education is almost entirely absent. If one is lucky, there is perhaps a couple of weeks spent on discussing superficial aspects of religious diversity at the K-12 level, and it doesn't get any better at the college-level.

I have no idea how to approach "does religion harm children" other than to point out the absurdity of the question. One might as well as "does culture harm children" as it is very nearly the same question. Neither culture nor the subset of it we call "religion" is the direct instrument of harms. It's the human persons doing the harms, not the abstract and academic categories we fabricate under such headings. So then I ask, what practices, specifically, are doing harm? What abstract category we call it is irrelevant, honestly. Others in the thread have already pretty much pointed this out, though, I suppose...

I can handle criticism but I think you went a little over the top. Everyone else here answered the question just fine.

 

[Quintessence]

I can handle criticism but I think you went a little over the top. Everyone else here answered the question just fine.

Not really. I'm not the only one who noticed this issue - in fact I only followed up on the point because of another poster who pointed it out and I felt it was worth elaboration. Not that it would matter if I was the only one who noticed it any more than it would matter if only one person noticed a rare plant in a field of common botanicals. The plant's there regardless of how many people noticed it.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Not really. I'm not the only one who noticed this issue - in fact I only followed up on the point because of another poster who pointed it out and I felt it was worth elaboration. Not that it would matter if I was the only one who noticed it any more than it would matter if only one person noticed a rare plant in a field of common botanicals. The plant's there regardless of how many people noticed it.

I respect the fact that you like things worded in a correct fashion.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Do you think religion harms children? If I had to make an educated guess, if religion didn't exist, the same people who think homosexuality is wrong and oppose abortion would still be around. Religion doesn't create people who are for a certain behavior imo, so why would it create people who oppose certain behaviors?

I used to think so. Now I think it provides protection in a morally chaotic landscape they must face.

 

[Quintessence]

I respect the fact that you like things worded in a correct fashion.

Haha... I like precision in communication when discussing complex and nuanced topics, certainly, and with religion in particular. I've noticed that failing to observe nuances when discussing religion can sometimes... have the unfortunate effect of adding to cultural intolerance through stereotyping. I've been around here a long time and seen all sorts of things. Smearing "atheists" and "theists" and "religious people" and "irreligious people" with some overly-broad brush to make a hostile point has all too often been among them.

 

[Augustus]

Unfortunately I don't have that answer as to why opposers and haters would still be around if there was no religious texts.

Some people seem to start from the perspective that the 'default state' is to be united and harmonious unless some belief system comes along to divide people. This is palpably nonsense. The things that unite us are artificial constructs like religion, ideology, nations, etc.

Division is the natural state of humans who evolved living in smallish groups with a need to be wary of outsiders. Religion has been one of the great unifiers in history, but everything that unites can also divide.

Humans are a diverse species and a plurality of worldviews will always exist. And, as long as we have a plurality or worldviews, we will always have division and conflict.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Haha... I like precision in communication when discussing complex and nuanced topics, certainly, and with religion in particular. I've noticed that failing to observe nuances when discussing religion can sometimes... have the unfortunate effect of adding to cultural intolerance through stereotyping. I've been around here a long time and seen all sorts of things. Smearing "atheists" and "theists" and "religious people" and "irreligious people" with some overly-broad brush to make a hostile point has all too often been among them.

I can usually tell who's who but yeah I agree that it's unfortunate that some 'may' not think for themselves.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Some people seem to start from the perspective that the 'default state' is to be united and harmonious unless some belief system comes along to divide people. This is palpably nonsense. The things that unite us are artificial constructs like religion, ideology, nations, etc.

Division is the natural state of humans who evolved living in smallish groups with a need to be wary of outsiders. Religion has been one of the great unifiers in history, but everything that unites can also divide.

Humans are a diverse species and a plurality of worldviews will always exist. And, as long as we have a plurality or worldviews, we will always have division and conflict.

I think it does boil down to specific topics Though.