Race and Mass Shootings

[Epic Beard Man]

Inspired by:

I know the “diverse” group of RF members are concerned about mass shootings lately due to the school shooting but let us address the elephant in the room. I made a thread alluding to the fact that race place an important factor of perception.

We are not a color blind society no matter how much we convince ourselves. Growing up, I never met a person who did not perceive me as strictly a human being and not perceive my skin pigmentation.

I have always been the subject of questioning when BLM protest. But look it hear. White guys shoot up schools and we want to discuss mental health. The frustrating part in discussing gun control is when it happens in affluent white areas we want to discuss mental health yet not in the impoverished communities.

People forget the reason why my state is so strict on gun laws it had nothing to do with us being a Dem state, it was because of the black panther movement and their push for second amendment and the fact they took guns to the state capital. We have gun laws because of minorities. If the NRA was composed of purely Latinos, blacks and Arabs in the U.S do you honestly think they would have so much political influence?

I read the online comments on my off time, and some people tried to clean up Cruz’s action because of his name. I recall the same about a man named Barack Hussein Obama, people thought he was Arab because of his name and that because of his name he is by default Muslim.

People often deflect because nobody wants to address the subconscious racial bias’ we have even from our so called color blind people. There are actual studies that indicate that despite color blindness, people still hold subconscious racial biases.

Cruz killed 17 people. The man before him in Vegas killed 59. BLM killed nobody yet we are ready to ostracize them as “black extremist” but when white nationalists kill we want to look at mental health or as #45 says they're "good people on both sides," or we simply deflect to antifa. For those of us who have been labeled most of our lives it seems like a miscarriage of justice and a misappropriation of labeling.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

You bring up some good points. Wish I had answers.

I don't think I've ever met anyone who thinks that America is a color-blind society. I've know some who really would like it to be, myself included, but we are nowhere near that point.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

He drops the mic....This point was driven home.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

BLM killed nobody

Aye, they have. As an official organization, in an organized manner, no. But there have been (that I could find off-hand) 11 deaths and 9 woundings by BLM supporters. Their actions (looting, violent rioting, property damage, screaming about dead cops, etc) are also more than enough (I feel) to warrant them being labelled as black extremists. I'm not saying that there aren't issues with white people (Nazis, KKK, these trigger-happy sickos,) but let's also not pretend that BLM is just a hash-tag or just a social awareness movement.

 

[Enoch07]

Inspired by:

I know the “diverse” group of RF members are concerned about mass shootings lately due to the school shooting but let us address the elephant in the room. I made a thread alluding to the fact that race place an important factor of perception.

We are not a color blind society no matter how much we convince ourselves. Growing up, I never met a person who did not perceive me as strictly a human being and not perceive my skin pigmentation.

I have always been the subject of questioning when BLM protest. But look it hear. White guys shoot up schools and we want to discuss mental health. The frustrating part in discussing gun control is when it happens in affluent white areas we want to discuss mental health yet not in the impoverished communities.

People forget the reason why my state is so strict on gun laws it had nothing to do with us being a Dem state, it was because of the black panther movement and their push for second amendment and the fact they took guns to the state capital. We have gun laws because of minorities. If the NRA was composed of purely Latinos, blacks and Arabs in the U.S do you honestly think they would have so much political influence?

I read the online comments on my off time, and some people tried to clean up Cruz’s action because of his name. I recall the same about a man named Barack Hussein Obama, people thought he was Arab because of his name and that because of his name he is by default Muslim.

People often deflect because nobody wants to address the subconscious racial bias’ we have even from our so called color blind people. There are actual studies that indicate that despite color blindness, people still hold subconscious racial biases.

Cruz killed 17 people. The man before him in Vegas killed 59. BLM killed nobody yet we are ready to ostracize them as “black extremist” but when white nationalists kill we want to look at mental health or as #45 says they're "good people on both sides," or we simply deflect to antifa. For those of us who have been labeled most of our lives it seems like a miscarriage of justice and a misappropriation of labeling.

I don't agree with everything you said there but overall I agree with you. I believe this to be one of, if not the main problems of why gun violence is so prevalent in the U.S.

So what can we do to start looking for solutions, in your opinion? I have a few ideas, but I would like to hear what solutions you think need to happen.

 

[Srivijaya]

Inspired by:

I know the “diverse” group of RF members are concerned about mass shootings lately due to the school shooting but let us address the elephant in the room. I made a thread alluding to the fact that race place an important factor of perception.

We are not a color blind society no matter how much we convince ourselves. Growing up, I never met a person who did not perceive me as strictly a human being and not perceive my skin pigmentation.

I have always been the subject of questioning when BLM protest. But look it hear. White guys shoot up schools and we want to discuss mental health. The frustrating part in discussing gun control is when it happens in affluent white areas we want to discuss mental health yet not in the impoverished communities.

People forget the reason why my state is so strict on gun laws it had nothing to do with us being a Dem state, it was because of the black panther movement and their push for second amendment and the fact they took guns to the state capital. We have gun laws because of minorities. If the NRA was composed of purely Latinos, blacks and Arabs in the U.S do you honestly think they would have so much political influence?

I read the online comments on my off time, and some people tried to clean up Cruz’s action because of his name. I recall the same about a man named Barack Hussein Obama, people thought he was Arab because of his name and that because of his name he is by default Muslim.

People often deflect because nobody wants to address the subconscious racial bias’ we have even from our so called color blind people. There are actual studies that indicate that despite color blindness, people still hold subconscious racial biases.

Cruz killed 17 people. The man before him in Vegas killed 59. BLM killed nobody yet we are ready to ostracize them as “black extremist” but when white nationalists kill we want to look at mental health or as #45 says they're "good people on both sides," or we simply deflect to antifa. For those of us who have been labeled most of our lives it seems like a miscarriage of justice and a misappropriation of labeling.

A few nights ago I attended a lecture on the Goths in the Roman Empire. Most sources on the Goths are Roman and what struck me was the racism they received from the Romans at that time and how similar it sounded to modern day racism.

The Romans basically distrusted and feared the Goths and claimed that they were incapable of following laws / pathologically criminal. Their 'violent nature' made them useful as soldiers in the Roman legions but not the sort of people you wanted to live in your neighborhood. Even when they were Christian, they were the 'wrong' kind of Christian and therefore no better than pagans.

Every deal the Goths tried to cut with the Romans was reneged on by the Romans (usually trying to engineer the assassination of Gothic leaders), or slaughtering them when they least expected it. They just didn't consider the Goths to be equal humans worthy enough to accord any trust or honesty to.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

BLM killed nobody ...

Aye, they have. As an official organization, in an organized manner, no. But there have been (that I could find off-hand) 11 deaths and 9 woundings by BLM supporters.

In other words ...

A supports X
A does Y

therefore​

X is responsible for Y​

I'm curious: just how much racial bias and enmity is required yo nourish such obviously bankrupt thinking?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

X is a decentralized movement, not so much an organization.
A does Y in outspoken support (i.e. in the name of) X, so in essence - yes, in essence - X is responsible for Y, because X is an idea and a political stance, carried out and represented by every single individual of A.

That's how things work. For everyone. It's only racial bias by turning a blind eye just because they're black. It's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, really. "Only real BLM members and supporters act peacefully..." No, there are crap supporters too. Murderers and thugs who don't want awareness, they want a war. We see this ever so clearly when they take to the streets, marching by the hundreds and chanting for dead cops.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Aye, they have. As an official organization, in an organized manner, no. But there have been (that I could find off-hand) 11 deaths and 9 woundings by BLM supporters. Their actions (looting, violent rioting, property damage, screaming about dead cops, etc) are also more than enough (I feel) to warrant them being labelled as black extremists. I'm not saying that there aren't issues with white people (Nazis, KKK, these trigger-happy sickos,) but let's also not pretend that BLM is just a hash-tag or just a social awareness movement.

Can you name someone who killed either en mass, or name someone who killed in the name of the group? I'll wait.....Oh if you're going to cite the Dallas shooter that was debunked already:

DALLAS — A sniper killed five police officers during a Black Lives Matter march on Thursday night and in the aftermath, the peaceful protesters downtown say they were wrongly blamed for the massacre.

Dallas chief of police David Brown said Friday morning that the gunman, who has was unaffiliated with any group, said he wanted to kill white police officers. Before this was known, fingers were pointed in all directions over who was to blame for the massacre.

Dallas Sniper Wanted to Kill White Cops, Black Protesters Say They Got Blamed

 

[Curious George]

Inspired by:

I know the “diverse” group of RF members are concerned about mass shootings lately due to the school shooting but let us address the elephant in the room. I made a thread alluding to the fact that race place an important factor of perception.

We are not a color blind society no matter how much we convince ourselves. Growing up, I never met a person who did not perceive me as strictly a human being and not perceive my skin pigmentation.

I have always been the subject of questioning when BLM protest. But look it hear. White guys shoot up schools and we want to discuss mental health. The frustrating part in discussing gun control is when it happens in affluent white areas we want to discuss mental health yet not in the impoverished communities.

People forget the reason why my state is so strict on gun laws it had nothing to do with us being a Dem state, it was because of the black panther movement and their push for second amendment and the fact they took guns to the state capital. We have gun laws because of minorities. If the NRA was composed of purely Latinos, blacks and Arabs in the U.S do you honestly think they would have so much political influence?

I read the online comments on my off time, and some people tried to clean up Cruz’s action because of his name. I recall the same about a man named Barack Hussein Obama, people thought he was Arab because of his name and that because of his name he is by default Muslim.

People often deflect because nobody wants to address the subconscious racial bias’ we have even from our so called color blind people. There are actual studies that indicate that despite color blindness, people still hold subconscious racial biases.

Cruz killed 17 people. The man before him in Vegas killed 59. BLM killed nobody yet we are ready to ostracize them as “black extremist” but when white nationalists kill we want to look at mental health or as #45 says they're "good people on both sides," or we simply deflect to antifa. For those of us who have been labeled most of our lives it seems like a miscarriage of justice and a misappropriation of labeling.

I think that it is interesting that if this young man was involved with white extremist groups that there is a hesitancy to label him as a white nationalist extremist.

However, I would disagree that action is not nor has not been taken to address white nationalist extremist groups.

While the video is interesting, it makes a lot of generalized statements based on race that are not true or unfounded.

While I think that it is foolish to paint groups such as black lives matter as composed of people who are of the same mind as the most extreme members, I think that is a tendency that goes beyond race. It is not because of race that we see this phenomenon. However, it is possible that it is because of race that we make exceptions for people like Cruz. That said, it is also possible that the narrative of "it is mental health not guns," not the attackers race, was the reason for the choice of narrative.

 

[Phantasman]

Inspired by:

I know the “diverse” group of RF members are concerned about mass shootings lately due to the school shooting but let us address the elephant in the room. I made a thread alluding to the fact that race place an important factor of perception.

We are not a color blind society no matter how much we convince ourselves. Growing up, I never met a person who did not perceive me as strictly a human being and not perceive my skin pigmentation.

I have always been the subject of questioning when BLM protest. But look it hear. White guys shoot up schools and we want to discuss mental health. The frustrating part in discussing gun control is when it happens in affluent white areas we want to discuss mental health yet not in the impoverished communities.

People forget the reason why my state is so strict on gun laws it had nothing to do with us being a Dem state, it was because of the black panther movement and their push for second amendment and the fact they took guns to the state capital. We have gun laws because of minorities. If the NRA was composed of purely Latinos, blacks and Arabs in the U.S do you honestly think they would have so much political influence?

I read the online comments on my off time, and some people tried to clean up Cruz’s action because of his name. I recall the same about a man named Barack Hussein Obama, people thought he was Arab because of his name and that because of his name he is by default Muslim.

People often deflect because nobody wants to address the subconscious racial bias’ we have even from our so called color blind people. There are actual studies that indicate that despite color blindness, people still hold subconscious racial biases.

Cruz killed 17 people. The man before him in Vegas killed 59. BLM killed nobody yet we are ready to ostracize them as “black extremist” but when white nationalists kill we want to look at mental health or as #45 says they're "good people on both sides," or we simply deflect to antifa. For those of us who have been labeled most of our lives it seems like a miscarriage of justice and a misappropriation of labeling.

I learned a time ago that many people tend to really separate by culture rather than skin color.

I grew up in the forced busing era, and had many black friends. (60s) I try to never let skin color rob me of the greatness of the individual. My favorite singers are Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole. I love any movie with Forrest Whitaker and Denzel Washington.

Once we move into the Puff Daddy realm, I see a divisive nature to my common core, and just let them be. Not due to skin color. I feel the same about Eminem.

When I meet any man and shake hands with him for the first time, I want to know him, no matter the color. If I meet them and have to go through a series of silly hand gestures to show that I'm in the groove, I tend to be leery and uncomfortable.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't agree with everything you said there but overall I agree with you. I believe this to be one of, if not the main problems of why gun violence is so prevalent in the U.S.

So what can we do to start looking for solutions, in your opinion? I have a few ideas, but I would like to hear what solutions you think need to happen.

First and foremost, let us be honest about gun control and and not allocate the problem with a specific community. but address it as a national problem not treat it as an endemic. Gun laws are to mitigate, not to cure any current problems because obviously you cannot get rid of all the guns off the streets. Two, like my job, have re-certification of permits every year (along with taking an 8-hour class/including hours at the shooting range). In addition these classes not only consist of gun safety as well as state and federal laws, but also the dangers of gun mismanagement. Failure to do so makes your permit suspended as well as suspend your CCW-this makes people accountable regardless if you're responsible gun owner or not. Any gun buyers under the age of 21 must supply an identification card and must be cataloged in a national data base. We have to continually challenge the notion of responsibility. Being a responsible gun owner does not just mean that you wont commit violent acts with a gun or mishandle a weapon, but also can you maintain an updated license to own and carry.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A few nights ago I attended a lecture on the Goths in the Roman Empire. Most sources on the Goths are Roman and what struck me was the racism they received from the Romans at that time and how similar it sounded to modern day racism.

The Romans basically distrusted and feared the Goths and claimed that they were incapable of following laws / pathologically criminal. Their 'violent nature' made them useful as soldiers in the Roman legions but not the sort of people you wanted to live in your neighborhood. Even when they were Christian, they were the 'wrong' kind of Christian and therefore no better than pagans.

Every deal the Goths tried to cut with the Romans was reneged on by the Romans (usually trying to engineer the assassination of Gothic leaders), or slaughtering them when they least expected it. They just didn't consider the Goths to be equal humans worthy enough to accord any trust or honesty to.

Interesting...Weren't the Goths of Germanic origin?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think that it is interesting that if this young man was involved with white extremist groups that there is a hesitancy to label him as a white nationalist extremist.

However, I would disagree that action is not nor has not been taken to address white nationalist extremist groups.

While the video is interesting, it makes a lot of generalized statements based on race that are not true or unfounded.

While I think that it is foolish to paint groups such as black lives matter as composed of people who are of the same mind as the most extreme members, I think that is a tendency that goes beyond race. It is not because of race that we see this phenomenon. However, it is possible that it is because of race that we make exceptions for people like Cruz. That said, it is also possible that the narrative of "it is mental health not guns," not the attackers race, was the reason for the choice of narrative.

The Double Standard In How The Media Is Portraying The Las Vegas Shooter

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I learned a time ago that many people tend to really separate by culture rather than skin color.

I grew up in the forced busing era, and had many black friends. (60s) I try to never let skin color rob me of the greatness of the individual. My favorite singers are Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole. I love any movie with Forrest Whitaker and Denzel Washington.

Once we move into the Puff Daddy realm, I see a divisive nature to my common core, and just let them be. Not due to skin color. I feel the same about Eminem.

When I meet any man and shake hands with him for the first time, I want to know him, no matter the color. If I meet them and have to go through a series of silly hand gestures to show that I'm in the groove, I tend to be leery and uncomfortable.

How is puff daddy divisive? You do realize there are sub-genres in rap.

 

[Curious George]

The Double Standard In How The Media Is Portraying The Las Vegas Shooter

I am trying to understand what you are saying. While I agree we can find trends, I disagree with using these trends to paint all white people or all black people.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I am trying to understand what you are saying. While I agree we can find trends, I disagree with using these trends to paint all white people or all black people.

In the video he isn't saying all white people

 

[Curious George]

In the video he isn't saying all white people

If someone says "when black people do x, y happens and when white people do x, z happens" their words refer to all. To avoid this one uses qualifiers.

We must be equally critical of all generalizations. That does not mean that there is not disparate treatment. A point of example is how a 14-15 year old teenager who commits a crime is frequently referred to as a young man when they are a person color, versus often being called a kid (even when they are older) when they are white.

Do you see the qualifiers in that sentence? Those words are very necessary.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If someone says "when black people do x, y happens and when white people do x, z happens" their words refer to all. To avoid this one uses qualifiers.

We must be equally critical of all generalizations. That does not mean that there is not disparate treatment. A point of example is how a 14-15 year old teenager who commits a crime is frequently referred to as a young man when they are a person color, versus often being called a kid (even when they are older) when they are white.

Do you see the qualifiers in that sentence? Those words are very necessary.

I think you’re caught on about words and definitions and not about the actual problem. A “white extremist terrorist” in this example is one who identifies with white nationalism to the extreme where he or she dissents using violence to terrorize people of a specific demographic.

With that being said all white people are not like that, but there are some that are. I don’t see a problem with his categorization it is YOU that infer the all as the term is specific to a group of people.

We ought to be equal but the purpose of this thread is to highligh that society does not equally address issues with the same tone. I have supplies ed evidence for such here.

 

[Curious George]

I think you’re caught on about words and definitions and not about the actual problem. A “white extremist terrorist” in this example is one who identifies with white nationalism to the extreme where he or she dissents using violence to terrorize people of a specific demographic.

With that being said all white people are not like that, but there are some that are. I don’t see a problem with his categorization it is YOU that infer the all as the term is specific to a group of people.

We ought to be equal but the purpose of this thread is to highligh that society does not equally address issues with the same tone. I have supplies ed evidence for such here.

Robert Matthew's, Randy weaver and Timothy McVeigh were all portrayed in the media with ties to white nationalist/supremacist groups. Wherein the threat of these groups were emphasized and blamed.

The man who drove a car into the people at Charlottesville was portrayed as being part of the white nationalist group. President Trump was publicly criticized for not condemning the white nationalists.

So the media does sometimes portray white supremacists as bad groups based on the actions of their individual members.

When some white extremists act it is covered as white supremicist extremism. Would you agree with this statement?