Quranic verses on killing infidels(non-Muslim)

[ellenjanuary]

I don't trust them. The purveyors of media, of handy statistics, of horrifying visuals. I don't trust them, not to take our minds off a collective economy that is headed towards catastrophic collapse by propping up a ready made villain while they transfer the wealth of nations to offshore accounts. I don't trust them to speak the truth when the truth is that our own system continues to fail us, and ennoble them. Who choose what we see, when we see it, how it should be seen. I don't trust them, writers of patriot acts and jailers of Guantanamo; who sensationalize the account only after it has been settled.

I'm not sure I trust Islam either; but Islam is too much Revelation, too much UnAmerican, too much "over there," not to be wary that I'm being told - look over there - while over here goes straight down the crapper.

 

[aymen amir]

So I take it you are not going to try to persuade Muslims to behave peacefully, but instead expect us to consider them peaceful while they explode suicide bombs all over the world? Why not, are you afraid they'll kill you?

We're not talking about a few bad apples, MM, and you know it. IN many Muslim countries, the majority of Muslims support suicide bombing.

from here. So the problem is not a few bad apples. The problem is common Muslim attitudes and behaviors. (If you like, I can supply many similar statistics which demonstrate that millions of Muslims the world over support terrorism.) Millions of Muslims rioted, burned buildings and killed people because they didn't like some cartoons.

That's a very interesting question, which I have discussed here at RF at length. I think it's a combination of normal human psychology, Islamic teachings, history, and cultural mores. They need to protect themselves from each other, because most victims of Muslim suicide bombings are other Muslims. Do you think there might be some relationship between the fact that they're blowing up airplanes all over the place, and other people's animosity?

The fact is, MM, Muslims are not peaceful. They do not practice peace. They practice war, terrorism, bombing, riots. As soon as Muslims stop killing other people, including other Muslims, and begin behaving in a civilized way, the rest of the world will see them as peaceful.

The problem isn't that we don't know what the qur'an says. The problem is that Muslims are violent. The only way to erase this image is to stop being so violent.

Do you do anything to try to persuade your fellow Muslims that the qur'an prohibits their violent behavior?

i find these words hard to belive comming from an American ... America is the source of all violence in the world either directly or indirectly

 

[beenie]

So I take it you are not going to try to persuade Muslims to behave peacefully, but instead expect us to consider them peaceful while they explode suicide bombs all over the world? Why not, are you afraid they'll kill you?

We're not talking about a few bad apples, MM, and you know it. IN many Muslim countries, the majority of Muslims support suicide bombing.

from here. So the problem is not a few bad apples. The problem is common Muslim attitudes and behaviors. (If you like, I can supply many similar statistics which demonstrate that millions of Muslims the world over support terrorism.) Millions of Muslims rioted, burned buildings and killed people because they didn't like some cartoons.

That's a very interesting question, which I have discussed here at RF at length. I think it's a combination of normal human psychology, Islamic teachings, history, and cultural mores. They need to protect themselves from each other, because most victims of Muslim suicide bombings are other Muslims. Do you think there might be some relationship between the fact that they're blowing up airplanes all over the place, and other people's animosity?

The fact is, MM, Muslims are not peaceful. They do not practice peace. They practice war, terrorism, bombing, riots. As soon as Muslims stop killing other people, including other Muslims, and begin behaving in a civilized way, the rest of the world will see them as peaceful.

The problem isn't that we don't know what the qur'an says. The problem is that Muslims are violent. The only way to erase this image is to stop being so violent.

Do you do anything to try to persuade your fellow Muslims that the qur'an prohibits their violent behavior?

well, the vast majority in most countries asked did NOT find suicide bombings justifiable.

corrections to your assertion:

The fact is, MM, SOME Muslims are not peaceful. They do not practice peace. SOME practice war, terrorism, bombing, riots. As soon as THOSE Muslims stop killing other people, including other Muslims, and begin behaving in a civilized way, the rest of the world will see them as peaceful.

The problem isn't that we don't know what the qur'an says. The problem is that SOME Muslims are violent. The only way to erase this image is to stop being so violent.

look, i don't bury my head in the sand (intended pun) and pretend that violence doesn't exist amongst Muslims. but to lump us all together and universally say "Muslims..." that's not right either.

 

[aymen amir]

So, are those of us who are unbelievers who are living fantastic, happy, fulfilled lives living proof against these words -- or is it just a trend and not meant to be true for 100% of unbelievers?

I'm absolutely happy -- have a good education, getting a better one. Found my true love. Have many wonderful friends, the sort of friends you keep for life. If I die happy does that refute the Quran?

NO not really ... Allah mentiones numerous times in the Quran that non belivers live a good life in terms of welth and all these fancy things , but the meaning of happenies is COMPLETLY diffrent from an islamic prespective and from the disbelivers point of view

 

[Autodidact]

i find these words hard to belive comming from an American ... America is the source of all violence in the world either directly or indirectly

Are you familiar with the fallacy ad hominem? You seem to be. The key thing to understand about it is that it is a fallacy, that is, not a valid argument. Is anything I said false?

btw, I find that Muslims often respond to facts about their behavior or religion with either the "I know you are, but what am I," or the "But Johnny does it too, mommy" arguments so beloved of small children. This does not speak well for them.

 

[Autodidact]

well, the vast majority in most countries asked did NOT find suicide bombings justifiable.

corrections to your assertion:


look, i don't bury my head in the sand (intended pun) and pretend that violence doesn't exist amongst Muslims. but to lump us all together and universally say "Muslims..." that's not right either.

Alright, let's be really accurate:

The fact is, MM, MANY Muslims are not peaceful. They do not practice peace. MANY practice war, terrorism, bombing, riots. As soon as THOSE Muslims stop killing other people, including other Muslims, and begin behaving in a civilized way, the rest of the world will see them as peaceful.

The problem isn't that we don't know what the qur'an says. The problem is that MANY Muslims are violent. The only way to erase this image is to stop being so violent.

Furthermore, even among Muslims who are not themselves violent, many of them support those who are.

It's not a question of a few bad apples, but of many, many bad apples.

Here's what I mean:

I can go downtown in the most conservative, evangelical city in America, and yell, "Jesus was a schmuck." People might yell back, or they might assume I was crazy. What do you think would happen if I tried that--about Muhammad, that is--in Peshawar, Jedda Sana'a or Khartoum?

 

[Autodidact]

NO not really ... Allah mentiones numerous times in the Quran that non belivers live a good life in terms of welth and all these fancy things , but the meaning of happenies is COMPLETLY diffrent from an islamic prespective and from the disbelivers point of view

Reading comprehension problem, aymen. Meow didn't mention wealth or fancy things. She mentioned love, friendship, education and happiness.

 

[YmirGF]

Reading comprehension problem, aymen. Meow didn't mention wealth or fancy things. She mentioned love, friendship, education and happiness.

The point is that because they are not activities that are focused on god they remain relatively meaningless, temporal frivolities, in comparison.

 

[Autodidact]

In any case, MM, my point is this. Instead of trying to persuade us, the infidels, who do not need to understand the qur'an, why don't you focus your energy on persuading your fellow Muslims, who do?

 

[dallas1125]

Excuse me?

Well, we started with Islam, then christianity, then hinduism, I just didnt think we needed to continue...

 

[dallas1125]

Yeah, religion is dangerous business.

Yes, at one time Christianity was at least as bad as Islam is today. So I don't think the difference is in the religion. It must be somewhere else. Where do you think we can find the difference?

I think it's that Christianity went through the Enlightenment, and was tempered by secular enlightenment values, while Islam has yet to do so. Until it does, it will remain a violent, dangerous, repressive ideology, just as Christianity was in the Middle Ages.

Thank you, I just wanted to make this clear before any christians came in here trying to bash Islam while forgetting their own dark past.

 

[A Thousand Suns]

So, are those of us who are unbelievers who are living fantastic, happy, fulfilled lives living proof against these words -- or is it just a trend and not meant to be true for 100% of unbelievers?

I'm absolutely happy -- have a good education, getting a better one. Found my true love. Have many wonderful friends, the sort of friends you keep for life. If I die happy does that refute the Quran?

All the things you mentioned brings temporary happiness and what Quran was telling was that Allah fills hearts of unbelievers with unease, spiritual discomfort and restlessness. Although they live surrounded by things which appeal to their desires but still there is no real pleasure in them. No matter how happy and content unbelievers may appear, this is generally deceptive and thats the truth

 

[dallas1125]

All the the things you mentioned brings temporary happiness and what Quran was telling was that Allah fills hearts of unbelievers with unease, spiritual discomfort and restlessness. Although they live surrounded by things which appeal to their desires but still there is no real pleasure in them. No matter how happy and content unbelievers may appear, this is generally deceptive and thats the truth

True love is a temporary thing? Please give me an example of something that is not a temporary happiness. Heck, can you offer proof that god exists and that we are not happy?

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, we started with Islam, then christianity, then hinduism, I just didnt think we needed to continue...

I don't understand. I said that Hinduism was also not free of terrorist groups. As a follower of Hindu philosophy, I can say with certainty that they do not represent the ideals of Hindu religions.

The same may be said about Islam.

I think all that's happening is a typical response to a perceived threat. We do tend to seriously overreact to those in America (not sure about the rest of the world.) And, of course, that fear can quickly (and too often does) turns to hatred of the source of that perceived threat.

The media does a great job of over-exaggerating facts to fit a certain agenda, such as anti-Islamic (and, let's face it, some pro-Islamic ones that deny Muslim terrorists are even Muslims, which I frankly find just as ridiculous), and say that because a large number of people (that is, people with imperfections who also are susceptible to perceived threats and propaganda) believe a certain way, that the entire system of their belief is evil and needs to be eradicated. Doesn't help when harmful cultural practices are mistaken for religious ones, and presented by media and propaganda as the core tenets and practices of that religion.

I'd imagine that those people who are in favor of terrorism to Western countries are thinking along the exact same lines as anti-Islamic people over here: their afraid that their way of life is in danger, and they want to protect it. There is a difference, of course: most anti-Islamic people in the West are not in favor of violent actions against Muslims (at least, I hope), and I think that's because of our culture.

My argument is this: because of the fact that some Muslim countries have beaten America at getting a woman head of state, and the fact that millions of Muslims live in harmony and peace with Americans and in other Western countries, the religion itself is not a problem at all.

 

[dallas1125]

I don't understand. I said that Hinduism was also not free of terrorist groups. As a follower of Hindu philosophy, I can say with certainty that they do not represent the ideals of Hindu religions.

Yes and it is a good point but what I was saying is that there is no reason to continue pointing out the radicals in every religion. Its pointless and counter productive.

The same may be said about Islam.

I think all that's happening is a typical response to a perceived threat. We do tend to seriously overreact to those in America (not sure about the rest of the world.) And, of course, that fear can quickly (and too often does) turns to hatred of the source of that perceived threat.

The media does a great job of over-exaggerating facts to fit a certain agenda, such as anti-Islamic (and, let's face it, some pro-Islamic ones that deny Muslim terrorists are even Muslims, which I frankly find just as ridiculous), and say that because a large number of people (that is, people with imperfections who also are susceptible to perceived threats and propaganda) believe a certain way, that the entire system of their belief is evil and needs to be eradicated. Doesn't help when harmful cultural practices are mistaken for religious ones, and presented by media and propaganda as the core tenets and practices of that religion.

I'd imagine that those people who are in favor of terrorism to Western countries are thinking along the exact same lines as anti-Islamic people over here: their afraid that their way of life is in danger, and they want to protect it. There is a difference, of course: most anti-Islamic people in the West are not in favor of violent actions against Muslims (at least, I hope), and I think that's because of our culture.

My argument is this: because of the fact that some Muslim countries have beaten America at getting a woman head of state, and the fact that millions of Muslims live in harmony and peace with Americans and in other Western countries, the religion itself is not a problem at all.

YES! I completley agree! Great post!

 

[Madhuri]

Out of the 5 major world religions, 3 of them have gone through these stage.
1. Hindus
2. Christians
3. Muslims

4. Buddhists next?

When were Hindus the 'terrorists' of the world?

 

[Oberon]

The entire koran is "out of context." It is like hearing only one side of a conversation. The "context" is, in many ways, provided by sayings and sira.

In any event, what "context" is necessary to understand sura 9:5 in a non-violent way, as it relates to the OP?

Still waiting for an answer...

 

[dallas1125]

When were Hindus the 'terrorists' of the world?

You have had your own share of terrorism, not as much as Christianity or Islam though.

 

[MuslimModesty]

Well, Islam is Perfect, but does not exist, has never existed, and will never exist. Meanwhile, the Religion Practiced by Muslims (RPM for short) breeds violence, terrorism, repression, denial of women's rights, punishing rape victims, child brides, Female Genital Mutilation, executing gay people, and an unremitting catalogue of horrors.

I don't think we need to worry about Islam, since it's purely imaginary. But this RPM needs to die.

The main concept of Islam has always been a around, just wasn't called Islam until the Qur'an was sent to Prophet Muhammed(saw). Adam(cs), Jesus(cs) Abraham(cs), Moses(cs) (among many other Dear Prophets) preached one message, There is only ONE GOD,. Believe it or not, but that the Main Core of Islam.and now, For more then 1400 years, One Man's(Muhammad saw) message continues to be practiced till this very day, very hour, very second...There is No God, But tHe Only God(Allah), and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah..

Therfore, unless you have first hand experiance with all of those abominable things you wrote, i dont think its necessary for you to point things out in which you don't have primary knowledge of... What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. ..

 

[Riverwolf]

Therfore, unless you have first hand experiance with all of those abominable things you wrote, i dont think its necessary for you to point things out in which you don't have primary knowledge of... What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. ..

Wise words, indeed.