Quran is a "clear" book

[Link]

Peace,

There is five things that are stated to be "clear" and "manifest" with the word mobeen in Surah Yaseen.

1. The leader who encompasses people's deeds
2. The message
3. The misguidance/error of polytheism
4. The argumentative/opposing nature of humans
5. Satan as an enemy
6. The recitation

@stevecanuck I'm guessing to you that Satan being a manifest enemy is not clear to you. I'm guessing the leader which verses mention as a witness, being a manifest leader is not clear to you. I don't know your stance on if polytheism is a manifest error. I don't know if you see humans as a manifestly argumentative. I don't know if you see the message as all to clear and if you understand it.

What I'm trying to say, Quran is a clear book, but per Quran to who? To those who Satan is a clear enemy and they witness that. To those who witness of our time is a clear leader and they witness that. To those who see polytheism as a clear error. To those aware of the argumentative/opposing nature of humans. Those who the message that was conveyed on ghadir per command of 5:67 is clear.

Yes to them, Quran is a clear book.

God is said to be both hidden and manifest, inward and outward.

The same about Quran. It's said to be a "hidden book". It's manifest and hidden. Both.

The misguidance of polytheism is not all to clear to everyone, as you can see many polytheists on this forum.

 

[stevecanuck]

Peace,

There is five things that are stated to be "clear" and "manifest" with the word mobeen in Surah Yaseen.

1. The leader who encompasses people's deeds
2. The message
3. The misguidance/error of polytheism
4. The argumentative/opposing nature of humans
5. Satan as an enemy
6. The recitation

@stevecanuck I'm guessing to you that Satan being a manifest enemy is not clear to you. I'm guessing the leader which verses mention as a witness, being a manifest leader is not clear to you. I don't know your stance on if polytheism is a manifest error. I don't know if you see humans as a manifestly argumentative. I don't know if you see the message as all to clear and if you understand it.

I understand it all very well. I just don't believe any of it. There is no Allah. There is no Jabril. There is absolutely nothing divine about the Qur'an, or any other so-called holy book. Every word in every such tome was penned by humans working a scam.

I wouldn't waste one minute reading the Qur'an if I didn't think it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of trouble.

 

[dybmh]

Woh. A great deal of trouble. Like baba yaga, the boogey-man, skeletons in the closet, monster under the bed...

Give people jobs, health-care, and education and the troubles go 'poof', just like any other people any where on the globe.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I understand it all very well. I just don't believe any of it. There is no Allah. There is no Jabril. There is absolutely nothing divine about the Qur'an, or any other so-called holy book. Every word in every such tome was penned by humans working a scam.

I wouldn't waste one minute reading the Qur'an if I didn't think it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of trouble.

There are about 1.7 billion peace loving upright Muslims in the world who are good people because of the Quran.

 

[dybmh]

it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of trouble.

Paranoia will destroy-ya.

 

[Link]

I understand it all very well. I just don't believe any of it. There is no Allah. There is no Jabril. There is absolutely nothing divine about the Qur'an, or any other so-called holy book. Every word in every such tome was penned by humans working a scam.

I wouldn't waste one minute reading the Qur'an if I didn't think it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of tr

Peace,

When you read "reminder", what is it per you? Quran is the reminder? But then why does the Quran say it's the Messenger reciting God's signs?

When you think "the proof", you think it's probably the message or Quran. But Quran says again it's the Messenger (s) reciting God's signs.

Until you see Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) in the heavenly sky and connect to them through the connection on earth (Imam Mahdi (a)) chances on you have no idea what Quran is going on about.

The Quran didn't say reading the words of the Quran is the path. The path to God and path of God combining 42:23 and 25:57 is the Ahlulbayt (a).

You understand the talk of oneness of God but witnessing God in being there in the clear horizon - takes a soul that does not run away from that overwhelming glory. The first night I experienced God's presence in the clear horizon and close to me, my legs were shaking in Salah. Now I'm use to it.

God is the light of the light. The greatest light he created and linked to us is the current Ahlulbayt (a), then the other Ahlulbayts (a) chosen in the past.

Words can only do so much. You can't understand the words unless you begin to experience the love of Fatima Al-zahra (a). Then when you poor water on your face, you feel that even the water knows Imam Hussain (a). That when you put water on your feet, you remember the water that descended on companions when terrified due to being outnumbered but that tranquility from heavenly sky - that blessed water of light - that love of Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) that God's Angels (a) gave them tranquil connection to, kept them stable and they won - so until you feel that on your feet, you don't know what the ritual of wudoo is about.

That when you feel like sinning or think of the illusions of the petty world you take refuge in God's chosen rope, his word of light brought to life, and if you fall to sin - you think of the supplications taught by Imam Zainal Abideen (a).

Or that when you feel overwhelmed by darkness, you witness Ahlulbayt (a) and give them power over the dark entities and let them slice them and dice them and that you empower your own spiritual sword which is but connection to God (swt) and Ahlulbayt (a) through that love.

Quran is not the reminder. That would be saying Quran calls to Quran for the sake of it. Quran has a purpose. It's calling to something to be lived not just read. The living acted upon Quran, the living light and the light revealed it calls to is Mohammad (a) and his family (a). This is why they are called "the family of the reminder". The Quran contains the reminder, sure, but that's different than it being it.

When you witness people hate towards them, hell will become an obvious fact. It's unnatural the hate towards the family of Mohammad (s) to the way people deny them in Quran and Sunnah. You too will curse their enemies to hell at a point if you understand the hatred towards them and why and the deep envy the evil creatures from Jinn and humans have towards them.

Then everything will become easy. By that beautiful word of light - that name of God - the hard becomes easy.

 

[dybmh]

I understand it all very well. I just don't believe any of it. There is no Allah. There is no Jabril. There is absolutely nothing divine about the Qur'an, or any other so-called holy book. Every word in every such tome was penned by humans working a scam.

I wouldn't waste one minute reading the Qur'an if I didn't think it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of trouble.

We've talked about this before. The Quran is not for you. You're not the target audience. You're never going to be able to understand it. You do not believe the unseen. Surah 2. That's it. You botch and bungle the Quran, just as a I would expect you would botch and bungle a french textbook on quantum mechanics. You can't speak the language, the concepts are beyond your capability and you have admitted it.

You should feel honored that Link chooses to converse with you about it.

 

[dybmh]

I wouldn't waste one minute reading the Qur'an if I didn't think it means trouble for the non-Muslim world. And it does. A great deal of trouble

A great deal of trouble... well. At least you've come out of the closet as being islamophobic. Literally afraid of Islam.

 

[stevecanuck]

We've talked about this before. The Quran is not for you. You're not the target audience. You're never going to be able to understand it. You do not believe the unseen. Surah 2. That's it. You botch and bungle the Quran, just as a I would expect you would botch and bungle a french textbook on quantum mechanics. You can't speak the language, the concepts are beyond your capability and you have admitted it.

Nope. The concept are well within my grasp. I just don't believe them.

You should feel honored that Link chooses to converse with you about it.

I do.

 

[dybmh]

Nope. The concept are well within my grasp. I just don't believe them.

OK. So, when the Quran repeatedly states that violence is justified against aggressors and ceases when aggression ceases. And it brackets all those 90 verses you've compiled with these statements, meaning there's a 2 to 1 ratio explaining the concept, you're saying:

"I understand that the Quran justifies violence against aggressors. I understand that the Quran directs to cease when aggression ceases. But I do not believe it, even though it's written that way." ?

And you understand the concept of cherry picking and being dishonest about what the text says, and how there are certain types of people who cannot ever let the Quran speak for itself? But you don't believe it, even though that's what you are doing here on RF?

 

[Dimi95]

OK. So, when the Quran repeatedly states that violence is justified against aggressors and ceases when aggression ceases. And it brackets all those 90 verses you've compiled with these statements, meaning there's a 2 to 1 ratio explaining the concept, you're saying:

"I understand that the Quran justifies violence against aggressors. I understand that the Quran directs to cease when aggression ceases. But I do not believe it, even though it's written that way." ?

And you understand the concept of cherry picking and being dishonest about what the text says, and how there are certain types of people who cannot ever let the Quran speak for itself? But you don't believe it, even though that's what you are doing here on RF?

I could argue the technicalities , but that is not the way it should be.
I don't like either when i see Christian preachers on the street doing that.

I would argue the "Dawha" on the other hand.
I have seen very oftenly proportion of arrogance and simple forms of sarcasm as justificatiion to specific purpose.

I have seen many converts to Islam and observed their testimonies , i have found the same things..

I don't like the focus on "Who" , instead i think more of "What".

I don't feel that neccesity of the word to be pricecly coded and pointed.

I will show you an example of what i mean.
When i was younger i had a reasonable discussion with one menager that i worked for.He knew i was wright but he still told me , I am your chef - you must do that".
And i told him , the one who has the need to tell me that,has lost his status the second he said it.
And i left.


Respect is not earned by title.

 

[dybmh]

Respect is not earned by title.

And flaunting the title gaurantees it is not deserved.

 

[Zyzyx]

I don't know the context of what is said above but focusing on the thread title…

In what way is the Quran “clear”?

It seems to my mind that not only is it not clear most of the time, but it is actually unnecessarily unclear for a number of reasons.

Also, it could so easily be made so much clearer, and yet it is not.

 

[Link]

I don't know the context of what is said above but focusing on the thread title…

In what way is the Quran “clear”?

It seems to my mind that not only is it not clear most of the time, but it is actually unnecessarily unclear for a number of reasons.

Also, it could so easily be made so much clearer, and yet it is not.

I would say if people are fair to it, it would become vividly clear. But if people want to play games and decontextualize it's words, then it would not become clear. Aside from that, it's been designed to have double meaning almost at every pivotal point. This is because Quran is the last divine book, and so it's been written in a way to allow room for misinterpretation for hard hearts along with dark magic effecting hard hearts. If it didn't allow room for that, it would face physical alteration like other divine books. However, with knowledge, and reflection, it unravels it's wonders.

When you become familiar with the Quran, you become aware everything it says hiddenly and inwardly, is hidden in plain site, and it becomes clearer the more inwardly it is traversed. However the meaning doesn't change, but the implications and flow links increase with knowledge.

 

[Zyzyx]

I am kind of getting from what you say that it is not clear.

I personally wouldn't consider myself as playing games, decontextualizing, or having a hard heart but when I read it I find it is not designed to be understood easily and it certainly is not clear.

Virtually every book on the planet (I know of) has a standard, easy-to-understand order.

• Stories are chronological and are clear when they step outside this.
• Reference books are by subject
• Directories are alphabetical
• etc.

You mention context but I find the context to one verse is often several suras away meaning it comes decontextualized and the reader has to recontext it themselves to understand.

You also mention other divine books being altered but some Quranic stories require those other books to make sense of the Quranic narrative. What kind of book requires corrupt sources for it to make sense?

I also feel “hard hearts” and “dark magic” are cop-out answers to someone not agreeing with you.

 

[Link]

It's more accurate to say the true Quran is a clear book, but that clear book is hidden in minds of people due to their own injustice as well as Iblis' influence. And so there are false Qurans that are from ambiguities while the original Quran is all about clear signs and clear insights.