Quran has the best guidance about war and peace.

[RAYYAN]

Ask them, not me, i only watched muslims fly planes in to buildings and read about beheadings. Apparently done in tje name of Allah.



Your reference for this? They were bent on founding an islamic califate at the point of a sword.

I read that somewhere few years back
But, a simple search on Google, here https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...any-isis-recruits-dont-know-much-about-islam/

 

[stevecanuck]

I read that somewhere few years back
But, a simple search on Google, here https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...any-isis-recruits-dont-know-much-about-islam/

Verse 9:111 is very clear. Allah promises heaven to those who "fight in the cause of Allah. They kill and are killed".

Sounds like ISIS to me.

 

[RAYYAN]

Verse 9:111 is very clear. Allah promises heaven to those who "fight in the cause of Allah. They kill and are killed".

Sounds like ISIS to me.

I agree, it sounds like ISIS if you read this verse in isolation
But, the story begins in verse 107
Have you read it?

 

[ChristineM]

I read that somewhere few years back
But, a simple search on Google, here https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...any-isis-recruits-dont-know-much-about-islam/

It's not the recruits giving orders to fly planes into buildings.

 

[RAYYAN]

It's not the recruits giving orders to fly planes into buildings.

Yes, that is true. You are missing the point here
The leaders are those who give the orders, only 5% of them have advanced Islamic knowledge
let's say 2.5% of them interpret the Quran in a radical way and 2.5% just want power

Now let me ask you this;
do people have to reject the Quran for the reason that it has different interpretations because 2.5% interpret it wrong?
2.5% is insignificant

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, that is true. You are missing the point here
The leaders are those who give the orders, only 5% of them have advanced Islamic knowledge
let's say 2.5% of them interpret the Quran in a radical way and 2.5% just want power

Now let me ask you this;
do people have to reject the Quran for the reason that it has different interpretations because 2.5% interpret it wrong?
2.5% is insignificant

That's not what your link said, what it did say is very few young recruits have a good knowledge of the Qur'an.

Do you have any data on the religious knowledge of the leaders.

The book is open to interpretation. Some interpret is one way some another. Like all holy books good and bad can come from them.

 

[RAYYAN]

Ask them, not me, i only watched muslims fly planes in to buildings and read about beheadings. Apparently done in tje name of Allah.

I don't know any ISIS members to ask them
You claimed that, so, did you ask them?

 

[RAYYAN]

That's not what your link said, what it did say is very few young recruits have a good knowledge of the Qur'an.

Do you have any data on the religious knowledge of the leaders.

The book is open to interpretation. Some interpret is one way some another. Like all holy books good and bad can come from them.

The link says 5% have advance Islamic knowledge
have you read it?

 

[ChristineM]

I don't know any ISIS members to ask them
You claimed that, so, did you ask them?

Jolly good. I didn't claim that

However @stevecanuck has given one vers

 

[ChristineM]

The link says 5% have advance Islamic knowledge
have you read it?

Yes i have, it is talking of recruits, not leadership

 

[RAYYAN]

Jolly good. I didn't claim that

However @stevecanuck has given one vers

My bad

 

[stevecanuck]

I agree, it sounds like ISIS if you read this verse in isolation
But, the story begins in verse 107
Have you read it?

Not according to Yusuf Ali. He has 9:111 starting a new section. If you read it again you will see that the subject is changed.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not according to Yusuf Ali. He has 9:111 starting a new section. If you read it again you will see that the subject is changed.

What's your "beef" ?

Most nations fight wars..
Muslims should only fight "for the sake of the God" ..
..nothing sinister about that.

 

[RAYYAN]

Not according to Yusuf Ali. He has 9:111 starting a new section. If you read it again you will see that the subject is changed.

Here is Yousuf Ali The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
There is no indication that the verse is not connected to previous verses

Another thing, read the verses yourself, it is very clear that
1. The verse is connected to previous verses
2. The whole chapter is talking about people who wanted to harm Muslims during a battle (here)
It is no surprise for Muslims to kill their enemy in a battle field

 

[RAYYAN]

Yes i have, it is talking of recruits, not leadership

My point is still valid
I know for a fact that terrorist groups form 1% of the whole Muslim population (I can't find the source now. Maybe someone who is honest enough post the source)
That means the leaders of these groups are below 1%

My point,
do people have to reject the Quran for the reason that it has different interpretations because 1% interpret it wrong?
1% is insignificant

 

[ChristineM]

My point is still valid
I know for a fact that terrorist groups form 1% of the whole Muslim population (I can't find the source now. Maybe someone who is honest enough post the source)
That means the leaders of these groups are below 1%

My point,
do people have to reject the Quran for the reason that it has different interpretations because 1% interpret it wrong?
1% is insignificant

I know only a tiny fraction of muslims become terrorist, some time ago at the height of ISIS i read it was around 0.6% off all muslims. (Sorry, i looked but couldn't find the source)

It means the leaders are less than 1% of all muslim but it says nothing about how the leaders view the Qur'an. I know for a fact that al-Baghdadi had a PhD in islamic studies.

It is significant for the families of those killed in terrorist attacks.

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. I know for a fact that al-Baghdadi had a PhD in islamic studies.

Politics..
Our hearts are affected by what goes on in the world.

 

[ChristineM]

Politics..
Our hearts are affected by what goes on in the world.

And in some cases our limbs or our lives

 

[stevecanuck]

Here is Yousuf Ali The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
There is no indication that the verse is not connected to previous verses

I have a paper copy of his translation from Al Azhar University in Cairo. In it he presents the verses in sections and explains why he does so.

Another thing, read the verses yourself, it is very clear that
1. The verse is connected to previous verses
2. The whole chapter is talking about people who wanted to harm Muslims during a battle (here)
It is no surprise for Muslims to kill their enemy in a battle field

This verse concerns the so-called battle of Tabuk. Mohamed marched his army for two weeks across the desert in an attempt to do battle with the Byzantines. There were no "people who wanted to harm Muslims". That lame excuse has a layer of dust and mold on it.

 

[stevecanuck]

My point is still valid
I know for a fact that terrorist groups form 1% of the whole Muslim population (I can't find the source now. Maybe someone who is honest enough post the source)
That means the leaders of these groups are below 1%

My point,
do people have to reject the Quran for the reason that it has different interpretations because 1% interpret it wrong?
1% is insignificant

This is a disingenuous argument. Do you really think that only 1% of a population would be allowed to act as they do without support. Wouldn't the other 99% try to stop them? The number that really matters, and of course can't be known, is the percentage that supports them. Terrorism doesn't happen without a lot of cheering and financing.

Consider Pakistan as an example of how a plurality of Muslims feel. It has the death penalty for those who "insult Islam" (like Asia Bibi). Political leaders knew they had to support that law if they wanted to win elections, because the majority of Pakistani Muslims support it. It's reasonable to assume they support the killing of infidels in other situation as well.

Also, using your logic we can assume that only a few 10's of thousands of Americans were upset at the election of Donald Trump in 2016, because that's how many went into the streets to protest. Your logic says the remaining 99+% of Americans were fine with the election.