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Featured Quran, Harry Potter, and Lord of the rings. Same?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by firedragon, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    When you are a goat herder in the bronze age, there isn't much to say except from things you make up.
    It is interesting and informative to see with what those people came up with.
    It is depressing and frustrating when you see that some people didn't grow out of the bronze age.
     
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  2. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Specifics?
     
  3. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Take the Adam and Eve story as an example. Somebody extrapolated back from a known state. S/he correctly identified that humans make inventions and that earlier humans wouldn't have had agriculture or even cloths. S/he also recognized that animals don't wear cloths. The conclusion was that earlier humans were more like animals as they didn't think about clothing themselves.
    And that is were the imagination stopped.
    The rest of the story was filled with magic and fantasy.
     
  4. Bilal Uddin

    Bilal Uddin New Member

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    How nonsense....Islam is word of ALLAH AND HEREBY TRUTH!

    How can be fiction?!!!!
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    You are referring to the Tanakh mate. Not the Quran.

    Yet, I understand what you say from a naturalistic point of view.
     
  6. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    I don't know enough about the Quran but I'm sure there are similar examples.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    It will be interesting to read and analyse.
     
  8. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Two points here,
    1. Where in the Quran story does it use the word "local" to describe the flood?
    2. Even if it does that simply makes the Quran version a post-hoc rationalisation of an earlier myth.

    Some other stories from the Quran that a number of folks would consider mythological;
    1A. Jesus blows on a clay bird and it comes to life

    'behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, Yusuf Ali Quran 5:110

    2B Solomon and the talking ants and birds;
    Yusuf Ali Quran 27
    '16. And Solomon was David’s heir. He said : “ O ye people ! We have been taught the speech Of Birds, and on us Has been bestowed (a little) Of all things : this is Indeed Grace manifest (from God.) ”

    17. And before Solomon were marshalled His hosts,—of Jinns and men And birds, and they were all Kept in order and ranks.

    18. At length, when they came To a (lowly) valley of ants, One of the ants said : “ O ye ants, get into Your habitations, lest Solomon And his hosts crush you (Under foot) without knowing it.”
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Well, you could always say that its a latter rationalisation. Thats your view, and that's fine. You can dismiss many things just like that.

    But if you want to prove the Quran speaks of a global flood, then prove it. Since you are just arguing something without ever exploring it, please read these verses and find out for yourself.

    11:25,36,89. 9:70 22:42 25:35-39 38:12 40:5,31 50:12 51:46 53:52 54:9 71:1-11 7:59

    I just separated them so that you could make the distinction from one verse to another.

    Thanks for bringing in some irrelevant verses for an irrelevant topic. So again, you are building a caricature of your own to attack later. Thats strawman.

    Cheers.
     
  10. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Sure I'll read all those verses, but I really think only one of them is necessary;

    Sarah 71:26-28 Yusuf Ali

    'And Noah said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers a single one on earth! 5724

    27
    "For if Thou dost leave (any of) them they will but mislead thy devotees and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones.

    28
    "O my Lord! Forgive me my parents all who enter my house in Faith and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrongdoers grant Thou no increase but in Perdition!"'

    Note the flood localists seem to interpret v26 along the lines of "in the land", but for all unbelievers in a local land to get flooded their would have to be no non believers living on the mountain tops and other high places.

    Also the fact that Noah was told to build a boat instead of just walking over the mountain to the next valley, and the fact that the Quran doesn't explicitly claim the biblical Noah account is wrong even though the Quran's recipients would be familiar with it through oral tradition in my opinion.
     
  11. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Also according to the Quran the ark comes to rest finally on Mount Judi

    See yusuf ali 11:44
    'When the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water and O sky! withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi'

    From Mount Judi - Wikipedia

    Mount Judi has an elevation of 2,089 m, so where did all the water go, and what geological evidence is there on Mount Judi of a flood on it?
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Who said “All the unbelievers”?
     
  13. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I was paraphrasing Yusuf ali who said, "Leave not of the Unbelievers a single one on earth!"
    You can't not leave a single unbeliever and it not be reffering to all unbelievers in my opinion
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Yusuf Ali doesn’t say “all of them on earth”, he says specifically. This is the reason you have to read the verses I have given you. You cannot cherry pick to understand something. Unless you don’t intend to.
     
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    II didn't say that Yusuf Ali says the words, "all of them on earth", I explained I was paraphrasing and gave the reason why. By comparison you have only returned empty assertion in my opinion.

    FYI I have read alll the references you posted, and I can truly say I think your accusation of cherrypicking is wholly unjustified in my opinion. There is nothing which unambiguously states that the flood was a local event, it is eisegesis to read localisation into it in my opinion.
     
  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I read a lot of history. Psych., not so much
    as it is hard to find anything well written.
     
  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    It very plainly says all the world, and makes
    no sense unless it was the whole world.
     
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  18. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

    IMO, the idea that flooding - albeit many repeated, separate events - is nearly universally experienced by humanity, and because of this, is expressed in mythology around the world is very interesting.
     
  19. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    Quran FICTION
     
  20. Baroodi

    Baroodi Active Member

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    I hope you read Quran very well before you made this comment.
     
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