Quran 3:7

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Ahlulbayt hadiths give mental clarity with respect to the Quran. They aren't authority in the sense they must believed in if you can't verify it in Quran. Rather, it must be verified in Quran. They talk in a way that compliments the Quran and they know how dispel Satan and his forces sorcery upon it. They don't directly quote the Quran (minority of hadiths do, but most don't) but when you become familiar with how they speak, you will see, how they are keep in mind Quran when they speak.

They calculate their words, and their words can't be compared to ours. However, there is a sorcery also cast upon their message as well like all Messengers were cast upon by a sorcery from Iblis.

But God has his mysterious wise ways and upon him is to show the way. The family of reminder, we are to come to them as thirsty as we come to Quran and vice versa, and in fact, they go together and can't be separated.

Even if it was the case that 99% of hadiths were forgery, the truth from them would trickle down from them to us somehow. It's not the case their hadiths are to believed in when not verified in Quran nor the case that Quran is to be relied on without seeking insights from Ahlulbayt.

They go together.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I'm not sure about your claim that Sufi leaders didn't claim it.

Well, if you say they did claim, the burden of proof is on yours. You need to show the evidence. Like when I say, shia imams claim ed they are well-grounded in knowledge, I can quote hadithes from them.

 

[Samael_Khan]

You welcome, it's a good starting ground or introduction to Islamic sciences.

I have been having discussions with sunni muslims for years now and my problem is that they don't know much about their scriptures. So it has been difficult to get into studying Islam because there are so many different views of scripture and interpretations.

 

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Obviously this verse is not saying All verses of the Quran are Mutishabihat. Some of them are Mutishabihat, and these are the ones an ordinary Muslim cannot know its interpretation. Only God and well-grounded in knowledge knows.
Quran does not say that ordinary people cannot understand the Muhkamaat verses.
4:59 as you are saying is clear to many ordinary people. It does not have to be God and well-grounded in knowledge to tell us its interpretation. Right?


What i am asking in OP, is show 10 verses which are Mutishabihat. The only way you can prove a verse to be Mutishabih, is to show how Imams revealed its hidden meaning, where no one else could possibly know.

I'm saying you're not understanding what I'm saying. I don't accept your interpretation of verse 3:7 and I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I fear I will just be repeating what I've said. So I will leave it at that, and get to work on my assignment due Friday midnight!

4:59 is Muhkam to some people and mutashibih to most people. It however, has nothing to do with words themselves being unclear nor Quran being unclear, but everything to do with sorcery, the tree of envy, and the nature of deviance and misguidance.

 

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I have been having discussions with sunni muslims for years now and my problem is that they don't know much about their scriptures. So it has been difficult to get into studying Islam because there are so many different views of scripture and interpretations.

I understand, and I left Islam for five years for bad interpretations but also the view of hell-fire was too daunting for me. I studied a lot before and after and during, and it's not easy for me, let alone for people who don't know Arabic nor have the time.

We Muslims including us Shiites have made Islam too difficult for ourselves let alone humanity to understand. We rely on ambiguity and seek to discuss on discussions leading no where, rather then building on clear insights and following nothing but clear proofs.

 

[Seek truth]

Quran 3:7 states, some of the verses of Quran are clear, and some of them are unclear or ambiguous (mutishabihat).

1. Quran has more than 6000 verses. Show only 10 verses which are Mutishabihat, and prove how you can tell.

2. Verse 3:7 states, those whose hearts are evil, will follow the unclear verses, seeking to interpret them. Show how this ever happened, by giving examples of some people who had a bad heart, who interpreted unclear verses.

3. Same verse states, no one knows their interpretations except God, and those who are well-grounded in knowledge. What is the purpose of God to include such unclear verses?

Read 'Tafsir Ibn Kathir'.
You will find the explanation of the verse

 

[Seek truth]

I understand, and I left Islam for five years for bad interpretations but also the view of hell-fire was too daunting for me. I studied a lot before and after and during, and it's not easy for me, let alone for people who don't know Arabic nor have the time.

We Muslims including us Shiites have made Islam too difficult for ourselves let alone humanity to understand. We rely on ambiguity and seek to discuss on discussions leading no where, rather then building on clear insights and following nothing but clear proofs.

If you were shii then you weren't even on the right path.

If you want to understand Islam then you need to read the Quran. Then you have the hadith.

 

[Link]

Read 'Tafsir Ibn Kathir'.
You will find the explanation of the verse

You will find an explanation of the verse. The explanation, that's a little too far status for someone not appointed by God, no?

 

[Seek truth]

You will find an explanation of the verse. The explanation, that's a little too far status for someone not appointed by God, no?

You're so Ignorant
Why do you nor read it and then come back?!
The Quran is perfect. But for those who don't understand arabic there is the tafsir. And in the tafsir you will find what the verse is talking about. But If you understand arabic and r if you read the quran you don't need the tafsir to answer your question

 

[Link]

You're so Ignorant
Why do you nor read it and then come back?!
The Quran is perfect. But for those who don't understand arabic there is the tafsir. And in the tafsir you will find what the verse is talking about. But If you understand arabic and r if you read the quran you don't need the tafsir to answer your question

People shouldn't trust a person not appointed by God to be the final authority on what Quran says.

 

[Seek truth]

People shouldn't trust a person not appointed by God to be the final authority on what Quran says.

You know really well what you are talking about, but you are trying to play me off.

You asked a question about mutashabihat beacuse you don't understand what it meeans. So I told you to read the tafsir of the verse, to undersgand what the verse means. And if you understand arabic than you don't need the tafsir.

 

[Link]

I'm not the person who created this topic nor have I asked a question about it.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I understand, and I left Islam for five years for bad interpretations but also the view of hell-fire was too daunting for me. I studied a lot before and after and during, and it's not easy for me, let alone for people who don't know Arabic nor have the time.

We Muslims including us Shiites have made Islam too difficult for ourselves let alone humanity to understand. We rely on ambiguity and seek to discuss on discussions leading no where, rather then building on clear insights and following nothing but clear proofs.

Yes, which I think is the problem with Islam at the moment. I think that the average muslim should study textual criticism of their book and read a translation that helps them to understand their Holy Book.

 

[Ebionite]

This verse sounds like an attempt yo make the quran unfalsifiable.

It's a similar technique as the parables of the wisdom sayings of the gospels - to keep the secrets hidden.