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Quran’s Resurrection Day and Bible’s second coming

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by InvestigateTruth, May 13, 2012.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Islam and Christianity both have a promised day. Islam promises the Day of Resurrection. Christianity promises second coming of Christ. Quran and Bible gives certain signs for these events.


    The signs of Resurrection day in Quran:


    The Sun is to be folded up and lose its light. 81:1-29
    The stars are to disperse and be blotted out. 82:2 / 77:8
    There will be earthquakes 22:1
    Trumpet will be blown 59:68-69
    Angles come 25:25
    God should come down to them overshadowed with clouds 2:210



    The signs of second coming of Christ in Bible:


    “Immediately after the oppression of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the earth shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet.” Matthew 24:29–31



    Compare these signs as described in Quran and the Bible. Aren’t these 2, the same event?
     
    #1 InvestigateTruth, May 13, 2012
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  2. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    Islam teaches of the second coming of Jesus, and it will be one of the major sings before the day of Judgement.
     
  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    If we compare the Bible verses and Quran, for example we see:
    According to Quran:

    God should come down to them overshadowed with clouds. See Quran (2:210)

    and According to Bible

    Son of Man (Christ) comes down in cloud.

    So, according to Moslem belief, How would the invisible God, who is present everywhere, comes down in clouds? Moreover, God does not incarnate, because that would mean, He would be visible, which is against the Islamic teachings.
    and Why would according to Bible, Christ also comes down in clouds, the same way as God should come down in clouds? Why such a similarity, but one says God comes in cloud, the other says Christ comes in cloud?
     
    #3 InvestigateTruth, May 13, 2012
    Last edited: May 13, 2012
  4. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    My friend, either you have not understood the verse properly or you just copied and pasted from some dishonest site or you yourself are being deceitful and dishonest.

    Qur'an 2:210
    Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided? And to Allah [all] matters are returned.

    That verse and a couple before it an some after it speak about belief, in the verse above Allah makes that statement in reply to those who will believe him only when they see him. So he says do they wait for Allah to come to them in clouds and with his angels so that the people may believe?

    It says nothing about a Judgement Day or whatever you were saying. The same goes with everything else you have posted.
     
  5. Murdoch1232

    Murdoch1232 Member

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    In Christianity the Day of Judgement and the Second Coming are considered two separate events. The Day of Judgement refers to the final and eternal judgement of all people by God, and takes place after the Resurrection of the Dead and the Second Coming of Christ. Is it the same in Islam?
     
  6. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    My Friend, I am just doing a logical discusstion. (not even debate, as this thread is not for debating)

    Regarding appearing Lord in cloud, if you notice, you will see that even in the Torah, there are many verses that says that the Lord appeared in the cloud:

    “that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.” And the LORD spake unto Moses…” Exodus 16:10-11

    “And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud…” – Deuteronomy 31:15

    Quran uses the same term. Moreover, Quran confirms that Torah is from God.
    You are interpreting that verse differently, however to me it is talking about meeting with God.


    However that was not the point of my question in OP. What I meant is that, according to Quran, on the day of resurrection, humanity would meet God on the Earth and would be in present of Him. Now, since God is invisible, then in Moslem’s belief how would “meeting with God” take place on earth?


    To me it’s clear that the following verses are talking about meeting with lord on Earth the day of resurrection:

    “And there shall be a blast on the trumpet, and all who are in the heaven and all
    who are on the earth shall expire, save them whom God shall vouchsafe to live. Then
    shall there be another blast on it, and lo! Arising they shall gaze around them: and the
    earth shall shine with the light of her Lord. Quran (39: 68-69)


    “Let him then who hopeth to attain the presence of his Lord work a righteous work.” Qur’án 18:110

    “He ordereth all things. He maketh His signs clear, that ye may have firm faith in attaining the presence of your Lord.” Qur’án 13:2

    And if you say, these verses say nothing about the Day of Resurrection, then what are they saying then?
     
  7. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    Yes same thing. The coming of Jesus signifies one of the major signs before that actual Day of Judgement comes.
     
  8. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    Islam does not teach about meeting God on earth. No Muslim believes that God will ever come to earth. It is either a question directed at those who disbelieve or it may be the actual Day of Judgement, in another verse it says that God will come and all the angels will come in rows.
     
  9. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing your view on this.
    The Baha'i view is also the same in a sense that God does not incarnate, or would not literally appear in cloud.
    However there are also symbolic verses in Quran (see Quran 3:7).
    So appearance in cloud is symbolic in Baha'i view, as in one sense cloud rains the mercy of God.
    As to the verse which says "the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord" the light is the symbol of guidance, so in Baha'i view that was the appearance of a new guidance from God on the Day of Resurrection, as Muhammad was the last prophet and Messenger till the day of resurrection. So, both prophecies from Bible and Quran regarding the second coming and the day of resurrection is fulfilled. So, the similarities between Quran and Bible are because the second coming and resurrection day are the same event...
     
    #9 InvestigateTruth, May 14, 2012
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  10. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    They are not the same event. The Day of Judgement is a separate event to that of Jesus coming back to earth.

    In Islamic teachings it is a condition of the Day of Judgement that Jesus must come to earth and live his life and die like everyone else and then after a few more major signs the Judgement Day will come.

    You are comparing the views of 2 faiths but unfortunately you don't seem to have correct information about Islam, maybe not even Christianity.
     
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to give 3 views here, Christian, Moslem, Baha'i about the Day of Resurrection and Second coming of Christ. Mostly as an informative thread, rather than arguing who has the right view.

    For example, Christians believe that true Christianity teaches Jesus was crucified, then physically resurrected and went up, based on the Bible description.
    Most Moslems believe that Jesus was never crucified, but went up physically, based on literal interpretation of a verse of Quran, and believing that the Bible text is changed from it's true original.
    Baha'is believe that Jesus was crucified, but only His physical body died, and His spirit ascended, based on Baha'i Scriptures, and based on spiritual interpretation of the Quran and Bible; meaning what Quran says is that They did not crucify His spirit, nor they killed His spirit, but His spirit returned to God.

    So, now, based on this, many Muslims and Christians, believe that what is intended by return of Jesus, is His physical return from up to earth.
    While the Baha'i view is that, the return of Christ has been fulfilled already by Manifestation of Baha'u'llah, in a spiritual sense.

    Another example, is the view regarding resurrection of the dead.
    Most Christians and Moslems believe that what is intended by resurrection of dead, is a physical return of people to life, based on literal interpretation of Bible and Quran.
    While the Baha'i view, is that by resurrection of dead, it is intended that, spiritually dead person would find new life and be guided, when this new guidance came from God through revelation of Baha'u'llah. and this is based on a fact that there are many verses and hadithes in Bible and Quran, that shows prophets called the ignorant as dead, and when those were guided, they said you are given life.

    So, in terms of sequences of evens, many Christians understand Bible in a way that says first Jesus comes back, then many people are resurrected to life, then Jesus judges who goes to heaven and hell.
    Many Muslims understand Islam in a way that says first Mahdi comes, then Jesus comes and dies. Then the trumpets are blown 2 times and then people are resurrected. Then they will be judged by Messengers and some go to heaven and hell.
    The Baha’I view is that, the Bab’s Manifestation fulfilled the promised Mahdi prophecy, while Baha’u’llah before receiving revelation from God, was a follower of the Bab (as a Hadith says Christ prays behind the Mahdi). The 2 trumpets are blown through these 2 Manifestations. Then these Messengers judged among everyone, and revealed new scriptures to resolve differences among people. So, in Baha'i view the return of Christ and Judgement Day is already passed, and the Last Day in Quran, is interpreted as the last day of an old age, and beginning of a new age, which is considered as a new creation of humanity through God's revelation.


    Please feel free to correct if my description regarding Muslem, Christian and Baha'i view is not accurate.
     
    #11 InvestigateTruth, May 15, 2012
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  12. BruceDLimber

    BruceDLimber Well-Known Member

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    In the Baha'i view, hey both refer to the same event, and it already came and went about a century and a half ago!

    Peace, :)

    Bruce
     
    #12 BruceDLimber, May 15, 2012
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  13. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting that both Bible and Quran describe the same signs for both expectations, and the year which can be calculated from Quran for the day of resurrection is the same year for manifestation of the Bab calculated from Bible. Year 1844!
     
    #13 InvestigateTruth, May 15, 2012
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  14. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Bible, Mat. 24:36)

    "They will ask Thee of the Hour --- for what time is its coming fixed? SAY: The knowledge of it is only with My Lord: none shall manifest it in Its time but He. "- (Quran 7:187)

    “…“The Hour” hath come upon them, while they are disporting themselves. They have been seized by their forelock, and yet know it not.
    The thing that must come hath come suddenly; behold how they flee from it! The inevitable hath come to pass; witness how they have cast it behind their backs!” - Baha’u’llah
     
  15. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” (Revelation 20:12)



    "And on the Day of Resurrection will We Bring forth to him (man) a Book which shall be proffered to him wide open." (Quran-17:14)


    “The Book of God is wide open, and His Word is summoning mankind unto Him. No more than a mere handful, however, hath been found willing to cleave to His Cause, or to become the instruments for its promotion. These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men. No man can obtain everlasting life, unless he embraceth the truth of this inestimable, this wondrous, and sublime Revelation.” - Baha’u’llah
     
  16. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    “And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” (Daniel 12:9-10)

    “None knoweth the interpretation thereof but God….” Qur’án 3:7.
    “What have they to wait for now but its interpretation? When its interpretation shall come, they who aforetime were oblivious of it shall say, 'The Prophets of our Lord did indeed bring the -truth. "(Quran 7:51-52)

    “I testify that, through Thy Revelation, the things hidden in the Books of God have been revealed, and that whatsoever hath been recorded by Thy Messengers in the sacred Scriptures hath been fulfilled.” Baha’u’llah
    “I have, moreover, with the hand of divine power, unsealed the choice wine of My Revelation, and have wafted its holy, its hidden, and musk-laden fragrance upon all created things. Who else but yourselves is to be blamed if ye choose to remain unendowed with so great an outpouring of God’s transcendent and all-encompassing grace, with so bright a revelation of His resplendent mercy?...”
    - Baha’u’llah
     
  17. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    "This is the Day whereon the All-Merciful hath come down in the clouds of knowledge, clothed with manifest sovereignty. He well knoweth the actions of men. He it is Whose glory none can mistake, could ye but comprehend it. The heaven of every religion hath been rent, and the earth of human understanding been cleft asunder, and the angels of God are seen descending. Say: This is the Day of mutual deceit; whither do ye flee? The mountains have passed away, and the heavens have been folded together, and the whole earth is held within His grasp, could ye but understand it. Who is it that can protect you? None, by Him Who is the All-Merciful! None, except God, the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the Beneficent. Every woman that hath had a burden in her womb hath cast her burden. We see men drunken in this Day, the Day in which men and angels have been gathered together."

    Gleansings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
     
    #17 InvestigateTruth, May 26, 2012
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  18. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    I find the Bahai people interpreting the Quran very wrongly i think the title should have been like this: Christian & Bahai Resurrection Day and second coming

    Then how come the OP only shows the Bahai's one?

    I know that Bahai is meant for spiritual belief that doesn't make sense (with all respect) you should look into Shia Ismhaili i think both ''sects'' are the same on the subject and others.
     
    #18 F0uad, May 26, 2012
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  19. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    In the OP #1 there are only verses of Quran, and the Bible!
    Please feel free to explain and elaborate why you think the Baha'i interpretation of Quran is very wrong.
    Please feel free to express your view on the second coming and Day of Resurrection....

    I didn't know that Shia Ismhailis also believe in a new revelation from God after Islam!!
     
    #19 InvestigateTruth, May 26, 2012
    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  20. F0uad

    F0uad Well-Known Member

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    I think esslam has defiantly refuted many of your own interpretations and you have stated its not a debate thread but if you insist i will if wanted. Since the Bahai is a religion that mixes both religion what seems very absurd then mix verses into each other with English translations what even looks more absurd, i have just one advice if your going to quote Quranic verses at-least look at the Tasfir behind them.
     
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