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Quoting your religion's verses for others to act upon

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tumah, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Dec 17, 2013
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    In another thread a Christian poster brought the following NT verses to a non-Christian.

    1 Thessalonians 4:10-11 (ESV Strong's) But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more, 11 and to aspire to live quietly, and to mind your own affairs,

    1 Peter 4:15 (ESV Strong's) 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or as a meddler.
    It was questioned - presumably based on these two verses - why the Jewish poster got involved in a discussion that didn't concern him between a different Christian and a Jew.
    Now, the Jewish poster is presumably acting on the dictum:

    "And a man will stumble over his brother (Lev. 26:37)", over the sin of his brother*. To teach, that all of Israel are guarantors for each other".
    - Sifra Lev. 26:37, Sanhedrin 27b, Shavuos 39a
    So I wonder: What could possibly be the point of quoting your religion's Scriptures to someone not of your religion, as a reason for them to do or not do something?
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  2. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

    May 5, 2012
    Greek Paganism
    I often wonder why this is the case too.
  3. Rick O'Shez

    Rick O'Shez Irishman bouncing off walls

    Oct 12, 2013
    It does seem odd. I think sometimes it is an attempt to lend credibility to a personal view.
  4. Kirran

    Staff Member Premium Member

    Jan 25, 2015
    I don't get the feeling there's any real justification for this. People who do this might have excuses like 'Oh I was just showing what we believe' but that's something different, and I think in practice most just haven't really understood that people of other religions don't recognise the wonderfulness of whatever scripture it is they happen to be into (Bible, Qur'an, as you will).
  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Dec 8, 2012
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    There is a tradition among some of believing that scriptures have power when spoken. Sometimes if it is felt that Satan is behind some opposition that speaking scripture will attack and suppress Satan. It varies a lot how this is expressed and how people think of it. For example in services where there are exorcisms scriptures will sometimes be read to demons to help drive them out, much like in some mosques the Koran is read to drive out demons (saw it on youtube). Some will quote scriptures that seem to be promises of wealth and health. In your case some scriptures were spoken to you perhaps in hope that the power of these scriptures would cause a change in you. Speech is often considered to have creative power.

    This arises I think from (in the recent century) ministerial emphasis of scripture passages that mention words and passages about creative power in believers speech. By emphasis I mean they are repeated frequently and as an explanation for the improper and frequent use of words like 'Hallelujah' and 'Amen', and they are put forward as a way of improving one's faith so that miracles can be experienced. Speaking scripture like this is somewhat like the law of attraction but invoking God's power. Its like not stepping on cracks, throwing salt over your shoulder or begging to win the lottery. This is common in ministries that derive some of their heritage from miracle evangelists like Kathryn Kullman and Smith Wigglesworth; but this kind of usage has been spreading rapidly since I was a child. Kenneth Copeland has a modern Bible school and franchise of churches that are a good example of this emphasis upon 'The Spoken Word'. They teach to speak good things into being.

    (Romans 4:17 KJV) "..., even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."
    (Isaiah 55:11) "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void,..."
    (Matthew 9:24) "He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn." <-- Here Jesus speaks as though the dead girl is alive.
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  6. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    May 20, 2010
    Not yours.

    Preaching and proselytizing without violating the forum rules in a deceptive manner.

    Appeals to authority, whether they are God or holy man, do not constitute evidence. The fact that Moses or Jesus said supposedly said something a thousand plus years ago isn't a suitable point of data to make your argument. We neither know if these statements, or those in any other holy books actually came from the people or beings that the writers claim. Fiction has been around since humanity started communicating. It would be much more useful to demonstrate times where certain advice was heeded and use that as an example of the application of the idea. That would be evidence...

    Scriptures are mostly used in this fashion because the person making the statement is too lazy to do that work.
  7. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Feb 10, 2011
    Saivite Hindu
    Personally I find it obnoxious and condescending. Still I accept that the person is just following what they see is part of their religion. I don't react or respond, and allow their words to go in one ear and out the other.
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