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Featured Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Nov 11, 2019.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I disagree with claim, and yes, I believe there are contradictions with this claim.

    True.
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "I do not support the assertion that God actually wrote the Quran"

    Quran as the natural word "Quran" means is "a reading/recitation" authored by G-d and was primarily a Verbal Exhortation that G-d descended on the heart of Muhammad and Muhammad learnt it by heart and from Muhammad learnt his companions by heart and so on and so forth generation after generation. The system continues till date in almost every part of the World where Muslims live.
    Quran was not in writing primarily.
    Muhammad dictated it also to some scribes as a secondary measures. Both the systems are intact and support one another.
    It is wrong to say that G-d wrote it, it is simply incorrect.
    Right, please?

    Regards

    Regards
     
    #82 paarsurrey, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

    [29:49]وَ مَا کُنۡتَ تَتۡلُوۡا مِنۡ قَبۡلِہٖ مِنۡ کِتٰبٍ وَّ لَا تَخُطُّہٗ بِیَمِیۡنِکَ اِذًا لَّارۡتَابَ الۡمُبۡطِلُوۡنَ ﴿۴۹﴾
    And thou didst not recite any Book before it, nor didst thou write one with thy right hand; in that case the liars would have doubted.
    [29:50]بَلۡ ہُوَ اٰیٰتٌۢ بَیِّنٰتٌ فِیۡ صُدُوۡرِ الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡعِلۡمَ ؕ وَ مَا یَجۡحَدُ بِاٰیٰتِنَاۤ اِلَّا الظّٰلِمُوۡنَ ﴿۵۰﴾
    Nay, it is a collection of clear Signs in the hearts of those who are given knowledge. And none but the wrongdoers deny Our Signs.

    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 29: Al-`Ankabut

    Regards
     
  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    More circular reasoning. In other words you are saying that if I start a religion all I have to do to prove it is true is to say that it is from God and there will be people that deny this. Tell me that you do not see a problem with this.
     
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  5. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
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    Please explain how that is any different from the Bible and the Baha'i Writings. Which are also God given Messages by God's Messengers Jesus Christ, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

    In the case of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, they wrote a lot, so maybe more accurate to say God wrote through them. The same explanations with supporting scriptures can also be given.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Have you ever read the Dhammapada ? Or Lankavatara Sutra ? Or the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali ?

    Is there any reason why you wouldn’t ?
    Is reading these books haram ?

    Do you have any idea what they contain ?




    Have you ever read the Dhammapada ? Or Lankavatara Sutra ? Or the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali ?

    If so, would you agree that spiritual teaching can be given without reference to God ?

    Do you consider Gautama and Patanjali to be messengers ?

    If not, can you please explain why not ?

    Cheers
     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I consider the heart of the Quran is Revelation inspired by God, not written by God, but written by Muhammad.
     
  8. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I describe it inspired by God, and written by Muhammad as with the writings of Baha'u'llah. The above does hedge on your original assertion.
     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    The word translates as recitation or reading. Your addition 'authored by God' is not in the translation of the word.
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    "Have you ever read the Dhammapada ?"

    Yes, I have read Dhammapada and liked it very much.
    I have also read "Gospel of Buddha".
    I have read "The Bhagavad Gita".
    I believe Buddha and Krishna were Prophets/Messengers of G-d .
    Right, please?

    Has one read Quran from cover to cover, please.
    If not please start reading it.
    The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah

    Regards
     
  11. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Wrong.
    You have read Dhammapada and think Gautama was a messenger from God ?
    That is contrary to what he taught.
    You may choose to reinterpret buddhism, but there is no basis for your claim.

    As for the Bhagavad Gita, which I have read in its entirety many times over fifty years, it teaches that there is no qualitative difference between the individual and God.

    Do you agree with that ?

    By making it clear that there is no qualitative difference between the individual and God, the Gita is effectively atheistic in the final analysis, which is why Krishna says to “renounce religious ritual and the flowery language of the Vedas, and come directly to Me”.

    You could say that buddhism is the realistic , and Bhagavad Gita the idealistic, expressions of self realisation.

    Both Buddhism and the Bhagavad Gita teach that self realisation requires no intermediaries, and that what is realised is one’s own nature.

    No, I have not read the entire Quran, though I did study with the Mevlevi Sufi order, and excerpts of the Quran were included in our study. Obviously, the main focus of the Mevlevi is the writing of Rumi, also Attar and Hafiz.

    “I wish I could show you when you are lonely or in darkness the astonishing light of your own being.”
    - Hafiz
     
    #91 Howard Is, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    If this is the case the Quran is not the only scripture inspired by God.
     
  13. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    But it is the only text mentioned which denies that self realisation is non-dual, and asserts that divinity is fundamentally separate from our own nature. It is also the only text in that group which demands unquestioning belief in an intermediary “messenger”, to an extent that is virtually worship of an ordinary human being.

    That demand is made by the very being who wrote the book !

    And THAT is hubris demanding idolatry.
     
    #93 Howard Is, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
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  14. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    Imo the quran was authored by Muhammed,if we look at the way it's written and where we can see that this is a human reaction to circumstances.

    The peaceful suras of mecca are very different to those written in Medina/yathrib,for example caravan raiding and war booty,slaves chattals and real estate,the first time we see the word "jihad"was mentioned in the quran.

    Imo you can see the ambitions of a human here using a supposed supernatural entity for gain,the night flight to Jerusalem for example to lay claims to more real estate,for me it was muhammed and perhaps someh from the companions like maybe they got him to change "the satanic verses".
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I already stated that I believed that God did not author the Quran. My challenge @paarsurrey is presenting the contradictory view that the Quran is the only book authored by God, but stating that other religious leaders are manifestations of God.
     
  16. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

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    Yeah, I’m with you.
     
  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I agree that it is inspired by God but not a direct word. Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say."
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I mistook your wquestion as do we believe God said that. I certainly believe what it says up to this point: "The path of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy blessings, those who have not incurred Thy displeasure, and those who have not gone astray."

    I believe I am much better off following Jesus in the person f the Paraclete. Following fellow believers often is not as fruitful.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe back when I did not have a day to day relationship with Jesus, I depended on His word. I believe that is where most people are in their walk.
     
  20. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Well, I can't think why you'd say that's where "most people" are -- since more than two-thirds of the word are NOT Christian.
     
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