Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

[shunyadragon]

[32:3]تَنۡزِیۡلُ الۡکِتٰبِ لَا رَیۡبَ فِیۡہِ مِنۡ رَّبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ؕ﴿۳﴾
"The revelation of the Book — there is no doubt about it — is from the Lord of the worlds."
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah
Quran authored by G-d not by Muhammad. Right,please?

Regards

This, of course, a claim of belief on the part of those that believe Muslims. From my perspective the Quran is part of the universal progressive Revelation from God. Muslims would consider the Quran the only standard, The Christians would consider the Bible the only standard. and the Jews consider the Torah, Tanakh, and maybe Midrash the standard. The problem is 'Right, please?' only applies to Muslims in all these quotes in the absolute sense.

 

[shunyadragon]

This forum is Science AND Religion, not Science OR Religion. This thread has not made any connection between science AND religion.

You can recommend to a monitor to move the thread.

 

[shunyadragon]

"God of the Qur'an"

One may quote such verses that demonstrate "God of the Qur'an". One is welcome.

Regards

One may quote such verses that demonstrate [the belief in] "God of the Qur'an". One is welcome.

 

[LuisDantas]

"God of the Qur'an"

One may quote such verse*/s that demonstrate "God of the Qur'an". One is welcome.

Regards
____________
*with the verses in the context ,some preceding verses and some following.

Uh?

Surely you do not need me to explain that the Qur'an describes its own conception of God?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I might agree -- if and only if I could get that guidance to the "right path" directly from the source. But if I have to get it from an Iman or some other human who pretends to know God's mind, then no, I don't.

So far in my life, God has never spoken to me. A lot of ordinary humans have pretended that they could tell me what God wants me to know -- but I have zero reason to believe them, so I don't.

The communication is with one's own heart. It is the Light that can shine from us. All Faiths have this potential, every person has this potential.

Mind must connect with God in all virtues that stream from our heart, the desire to do and be all good.

It becomes longing to be constantly a better person with increasing outward portrayal of supporting actions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I quoted directly from the source, without any intercessions. Right, please?

Regards

Unless your a Muslim one may not agree concerning the certainty of your claim of the 'Source.' I tend to agree with your quotes, but more in the context of a greater universal view.

The Source of that Word, recorded in the Quran, was as spoken by Muhammad. That can not be rejected.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I quoted directly from the source, without any intercessions. Right, please?

Regards

It was spoken by Muhammad the Messenger of God. (Peace be with Him)

Thus God did not directly record that in the Quran, there was the Message and then Scribes to record what was revealed by Muhammad.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For me scripture is poetic writing, so I have nothing to agree or disagree with.

However, what you have quoted above does not sound like God wrote it, rather someone talking/praying to God?

Surely God would have been more direct and said something like
"Me alone you must worship and me alone should you implore for help.." Quran 1:5-6

The Message of God has always been through a chosen Messenger. Thus this is just one obvious diversity in the way it was recorded.

It also then becomes more in tune with scientific thought.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Remember, you put this question in the science forum. There is only one "science". For example, there is no Islamic science that's different than Christian science. Science is independent of religion. So the verses you quoted might be true for most Muslims, but they are not true for non-Muslims.

There is only one God and this Faith is one as well.

Thus we can alao see there is many divergent thoughts of both faith and science in seeing that oneness.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Or maybe they did get it from their own minds, and they also considered their mind a manifestation of God ?

An ultra-narcissist of that kind would probably spin the story to imply an external Ultimate Authority.

Cosmic Gaslighting.

Yes mind is a key.

Regards Tony

 

[Jedster]

The Message of God has always been through a chosen Messenger. Thus this is just one obvious diversity in the way it was recorded.

It also then becomes more in tune with scientific thought.

Regards Tony

(If this was meant for me, then I must tell you I do not understand it at all, other than you believe God has messengers etc and some science))
I don't understand why you replied to my post, maybe you meant it to @paarsurrey

Your message #67 to @paarsurrey seems to agree with what I wrote. i.e God never wrote the Quaran.

G'nite (I'm going to watch a DVD now )

 

[TransmutingSoul]

(If this was meant for me, then I must tell you I do not understand it at all, other than you believe God has messengers etc and some science))
I don't understand why you replied to my post, maybe you meant it to @paarsurrey

Your message #67 to @paarsurrey seems to agree with what I wrote. i.e God never wrote the Quaran.

G'nite (I'm going to watch a DVD now )

Good morning enjoy the DVD

Regards Tony

 

[paarsurrey]

Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

Quran is authored by G-d, not by Muhammad:

[26:193]وَ اِنَّہٗ لَتَنۡزِیۡلُ رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ﴿۱۹۳﴾ؕ
And verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
[26:194]نَزَلَ بِہِ الرُّوۡحُ الۡاَمِیۡنُ ﴿۱۹۴﴾ۙ
The Spirit, Faithful to the Trust, has descended with it.
[26:196]بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِیٍّ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۱۹۶﴾ؕ
In plain and clear Arabic tongue.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 26: Ash-Shu`ara'
Quran is not imagination of Muhammad's brain/mind/heart etc, and Muhammad never described it as such. Right, please?

Regards

 

[gnostic]

One could quote such verses of Quran ,with the verses in the context*, which one says show compulsion.
There is no restriction on one. Right, please?

Paarsurrey, if Muhammad cannot practice in life what he preaches and teaches from the Qur’an, doesn’t that make him a hypocrite?

Taif is example of not only compulsion, it is also example of him being an aggressor, the starter of wars.

YUSUF ALI
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.
PICKTHALL
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

Before Muhammad reached Medina (in 622 CE), he sought refuge at Taif. He and his followers were denied entry into town. Taif didn’t start a war with Muslims, the townspeople didn’t attack or commit violence on Muslims.

But after Mecca surrendered (630 CE), Muhammad led his army through the Arabian Peninsula in a campaign to convert as many Arabs as possible, which included laying siege to Taif (630 CE) in revenge for not receiving sanctuary from Taif townspeople back in 622 CE.

Muhammad started this war against Taif (630), not Taif against Muslims. So essentially Muhammad and his Muslim army were the aggressors and transgressors.

Even when Taif did offer their surrender to Muhammad, he rejected unless all Taif townspeople converted to Islam.

If Muhammad had no army with him at Taif, do you really think he could have converted everyone at Taif?

But Muhammad did have army, and with threats of massacres or being sold in slavery, they converted. That’s compulsion, paarsurrey.

All Muslims see Muhammad as a role model, so is the one who should be setting examples with how he lived his life. If he did something that were contrary to what he taught, then he isn’t a good role model. He certainly wasn’t good at following the Qur’an with what happened at Taif.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

"Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help. Guide us in the right path." Quran 1:5-6 by G-d.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah
Does one agree with the above? Or one doesn't?

Regards

If God authored the Quran, as you claim, then who is He talking about worshiping and imploring for guidance in these verses?

 

[Howard Is]

Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

Quran is authored by G-d, not by Muhammad:

[26:193]وَ اِنَّہٗ لَتَنۡزِیۡلُ رَبِّ الۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ﴿۱۹۳﴾ؕ
And verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
[26:194]نَزَلَ بِہِ الرُّوۡحُ الۡاَمِیۡنُ ﴿۱۹۴﴾ۙ
The Spirit, Faithful to the Trust, has descended with it.
[26:196]بِلِسَانٍ عَرَبِیٍّ مُّبِیۡنٍ ﴿۱۹۶﴾ؕ
In plain and clear Arabic tongue.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 26: Ash-Shu`ara'
Quran is not imagination of Muhammad's brain/mind/heart etc, and Muhammad never described it as such. Right, please?

Regards

Once again, a circular argument. The Quran is your authority for the validity of the Quran.
Surely you can see that ?

Quran is not imagination of Muhammad's brain/mind/heart etc, and Muhammad never described it as such. Right, please?

There is absolutely no basis for that claim, except for the circular reasoning which, in your mind, validates the Quran.

Mohammed had social and military agendas. And he understood the psychology of the Arab population. He was very clever at public relations and propaganda.
He was hardly going to admit that he (and others) made it all up.

 

[shunyadragon]

If God authored the Quran, as you claim, then who is He talking about worshiping and imploring for guidance in these verses?

God

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

God

That makes no sense if God actually authored the Quran.

That only makes sense if a human being authored it.

 

[shunyadragon]

That makes no sense if God actually authored the Quran.

That only makes sense if a human being authored it.

I do not support the assertion that God actually wrote the Quran nor any of the scripture of the Abrahamic religions.

As a Baha'i I see God's inspiration and influence in scriptures, but also the human influence of the cultures of the times. They all pray to God.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I do not support the assertion that God actually wrote the Quran nor any of the scripture of the Abrahamic religions.

As a Baha'i I see God's inspiration and influence in scriptures, but also the human influence of the cultures of the times. They all pray to God.

But doesn't the OP claim that God authored the Quran?

If He did, then that verse makes no sense.