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Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "

Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:

[33:51]یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ اِنَّاۤ اَحۡلَلۡنَا لَکَ اَزۡوَاجَکَ الّٰتِیۡۤ اٰتَیۡتَ اُجُوۡرَہُنَّ وَ مَا مَلَکَتۡ یَمِیۡنُکَ مِمَّاۤ اَفَآءَ اللّٰہُ عَلَیۡکَ وَ بَنٰتِ عَمِّکَ وَ بَنٰتِ عَمّٰتِکَ وَ بَنٰتِ خَالِکَ وَ بَنٰتِ خٰلٰتِکَ الّٰتِیۡ ہَاجَرۡنَ مَعَکَ ۫ وَ امۡرَاَۃً مُّؤۡمِنَۃً اِنۡ وَّہَبَتۡ نَفۡسَہَا لِلنَّبِیِّ اِنۡ اَرَادَ النَّبِیُّ اَنۡ یَّسۡتَنۡکِحَہَا ٭ خَالِصَۃً لَّکَ مِنۡ دُوۡنِ الۡمُؤۡمِنِیۡنَ ؕ قَدۡ عَلِمۡنَا مَا فَرَضۡنَا عَلَیۡہِمۡ فِیۡۤ اَزۡوَاجِہِمۡ وَ مَا مَلَکَتۡ اَیۡمَانُہُمۡ لِکَیۡلَا یَکُوۡنَ عَلَیۡکَ حَرَجٌ ؕ وَ کَانَ اللّٰہُ غَفُوۡرًا رَّحِیۡمًا ﴿۵۱﴾
O Prophet, We have made lawful to thee thy wives whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesses from among those whom Allah has given thee as gains of war, and the daughters of thy paternal uncle, and the daughters of thy paternal aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncle, and the daughters of thy maternal aunts who have emigrated with thee, and any other believing woman if she offers herself for marriage to the Prophet provided the Prophet desires to marry her; this is only for thee, as against other believers — We have already made known what We have enjoined on them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess — in order that there may be no difficulty for thee in the discharge of thy work. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 33: Al-Ahzab

Right, please?

For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
  1. Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  2. Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  3. Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
  4. Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?
Regards
____________
  • I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
  • "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
  • "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
  • Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
"Thee alone do we worship and Thee alone do we implore for help. Guide us in the right path." Quran 1:5-6 by G-d.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 1: Al-Fatihah
Does one agree with the above? Or one doesn't?

Regards

The question in the OP is ambiguous. If you're asking whether that might be a valid translation, the answer is yes. But if you're asking whether we agree that a supernatural being revealed those words to Muhammad, I think that that is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be true.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
"If the meaning of the Quran can only be understood in Arabic"

I never said that. Did I, please?
If yes, then please quote the post number.

Regards

Hahem

paarsurrey said:
For instance, please?
Please give quotations from Quran in the original Arabic text for a meaningful discussion, please. The translations are never an alternative of the original, please. Right, please?

Regards

What now?
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Friend @England my lionheart !

If one's intention is to learn Quran and through it to learn Arabic, then it is easy to learn. Does one have the intention, please? Have a heart and try it. I will help one. Right, please?

Regards

It would be possible but I'm unlikely to visit Arab countries as I wouldn't be a welcome tourist where I could learn but I'd say even if Arabic doesn't translate well we can get the gist of the contents of the quran.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I have read Kitab-i-Iqan or The Book of Certitude, Bahaullah did not claim in it that G-d spoke to him directly and also gave no reason as such. Bahaullah quoted no Word of Revelation in it in which he had been commanded with the word "say".
Right, please?
Muhammad had been commanded by G-d in other styles also:

[29:46]اُتۡلُ مَاۤ اُوۡحِیَ اِلَیۡکَ مِنَ الۡکِتٰبِ وَ اَقِمِ الصَّلٰوۃَ ؕ اِنَّ الصَّلٰوۃَ تَنۡہٰی عَنِ الۡفَحۡشَآءِ وَ الۡمُنۡکَرِ ؕ وَ لَذِکۡرُ اللّٰہِ اَکۡبَرُ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ یَعۡلَمُ مَا تَصۡنَعُوۡنَ ﴿۴۶﴾
Recite that which has been revealed to thee of the Book, and observe Prayer. Surely, Prayer restrains one from indecency and manifest evil, and remembrance of Allah indeed is the greatest virtue. And Allah knows what you do.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 29: Al-`Ankabut
Right, please?

Regards

i haven't read that one but from what Bahai's have quoted it would appear that he was just a religious philosopher trying to reconcile the Bible and Qu'ran and failing to do so.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The offer I extended to our friend @England my lionheart in my post #298 is in general for everybody. Does one has the intention, please?

Regards
I have no intention of learning the Arabic of the Quran because it’s meaning can be adequately understood through translators, with reliance upon experts where it’s translation is disputed (which most of Yusuf Ali’s translation is not disputed anyway).
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
  • please?
  • Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
  • Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?

Of course there is, in both the writings if the Bab and Baha'u'llah, they both had Revelation from God, just as Muhammad did. Many many quotes are available.

The question you ask is obvious in its intention, as you are asking can you see the sun in full splendour before it has arisin above the horizon.

Thus we can ask, can we see God speaking through Moses before the Burning Bush, or Christ before the Dive descended at Baptisim or before the Bab declared to Mullá Husayn, or before Baha'u'llah declared in 1863? The answer is no. At the same time there is always a few people that arise from their slumber and greet the Dawn of a New Day and see the potential of the Light to come.

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Of course there is, in both the writings if the Bab and Baha'u'llah, they both had Revelation from God, just as Muhammad did. Many many quotes are available.

The question you ask is obvious in its intention, as you are asking can you see the sun in full splendour before it has arisin above the horizon.

Thus we can ask, can we see God speaking through Moses before the Burning Bush, or Christ before the Dive descended at Baptisim or before the Bab declared to Mullá Husayn, or before Baha'u'llah declared in 1863? The answer is no. At the same time there is always a few people that arise from their slumber and greet the Dawn of a New Day and see the potential of the Light to come.

Regards Tony
"Of course there is"

Great! Then please highlight in the first five verses of Iqan Farsi those natural word/s that demonstrate with certainty Direct Converse from/of G-d with Bahaullah, please. Right, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Quotes Series: From Quran- Authored by G-d not by Muhammad

"Usually a direct word will be prefaced by the word "say." "

Quran is authored by G-d as per the criterion suggested by our Christian friend @Muffled in post #97 in this thread . G-d tells Muhammad with the word "say" and or "قُلۡ" in Arabic original language and I have quoted many such verses in my previous posts .
Yet there are other styles (many of them) that depict that the Converse is direct from G-d with Muhammad. Since I daily read some portion of Quran(1/120) very early in the morning, so I will be quoting as I observe them while I read Quran. The words "اَلَمۡ تَرَ" or "Dost thou" is another style of direct address to Muhammad by G-d. And "یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّبِیُّ" or "O thou Prophet" is yet another one:
[33:63]سُنَّۃَ اللّٰہِ فِی الَّذِیۡنَ خَلَوۡا مِنۡ قَبۡلُ ۚ وَ لَنۡ تَجِدَ لِسُنَّۃِ اللّٰہِ تَبۡدِیۡلًا ﴿۶۳﴾
Such has been the way of Allah in the case of those who passed away before, and thou wilt never find a change in the way of Allah.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 33: Al-Ahzab
Right, please?

For the context of the above verses , please, access the above link.
  1. Is there any such verse in the Torah of the Judaism where G-d has directly addressed Moses, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  2. Is there any such verse in the Bible of the Christianity where G-d (not Jesus, as Jesus was never god or son of god) has directly addressed Jesus, please?If yes, please quote it here. Right, please?
  3. Is there any such verse in Kitab-i-Iqan by Bahaullah (where G-d has directly spoken to Bahaullah, Bahaullah was never a god), there cannot be any verse as G-d did not speak to Bahaullah directly? If there is any, please quote it here. Right, please?
  4. Kitab-i-Iqan was written by Bahaullah in 1862 (not revealed by G-d ) and the Covenant was taken by Bahaullah (without any direct Converse/Commandment of G-d, as I understand) in 1863. Therefore, if there had been any direct Converse from G-d Bahaullah would have mentioned it in Kitab-i-Iqan. In the Pre-Covenant period, Kitab-i-Iqan is the only core book of Bahaullah. Right,please?
Regards
____________
  • I observe that Quran right from its start to its end is a direct Converse and in a sense a continuous dialogue between G-d and Muhammad providing live guidance, and through Muhammad to his companions, to the other people of his time and the world at large and for all times to come to all humanity. Right, please?
  • "یٰۤاَیُّہَا الرَّسُوۡلُ " translated in English with the words "O Messenger" is another style, please refer my post #243 .
  • "وَ لَوۡ تَرٰۤی "/ "If only thou couldst see" as mentioned in post #255.
  • Another mode of direct Converse is direct commandment as in the verse [32:31] "فَاَعۡرِضۡ" , "وَ انۡتَظِرۡ" So turn away from them, and wait #261.
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It would be possible but I'm unlikely to visit Arab countries as I wouldn't be a welcome tourist where I could learn but I'd say even if Arabic doesn't translate well we can get the gist of the contents of the quran.
Friend @England my lionheart !
One doesn't have to go to any Arab countries for learning Quran and through Quran the Arabic. Many things are available online. Is one interested, please?

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The question in the OP is ambiguous. If you're asking whether that might be a valid translation, the answer is yes. But if you're asking whether we agree that a supernatural being revealed those words to Muhammad, I think that that is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be true.
"But if you're asking whether we agree that a supernatural being revealed those words to Muhammad, I think that that is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be true."

And, what are one's Scientific reasons/argument for that, please? Please support one reason/arguments:
  1. by quoting from a text book of science
  2. or quoting from a peer-reviewed article published in a Science journal of world-repute.
Right, please?
One is a friend, please

Regards
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
"But if you're asking whether we agree that a supernatural being revealed those words to Muhammad, I think that that is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to be true."

And, what are one's Scientific reasons/argument for that, please? Please support one reason/arguments:
  1. by quoting from a text book of science
  2. or quoting from a peer-reviewed article published in a Science journal of world-repute.
Right, please?
One is a friend, please

Regards

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. - Carl Sagan, astrophysicist
 
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