Quotes from scientists

[ChristineM]

Not directly. Jews did not build monuments to themselves.
What we know is there are two inscriptions speaking of
"the house of David." Meaning a dynasty, which is usually
named after the first King.

But many who claimed "there is no evidence of King David"
don't openly say now, "I was wrong." They move onto some
thing else. This is one reason why I am impressed by the
bible - the intellectual dishonesty of many of its enemies.

Alledgedly speaking of the house of david, there is considerable controversy on the understanding and translation.

Many who say there is evidence seem to skip the doubt

 

[halbhh]

I've been collecting quotes from scientists. Thought I'd share some. (One per post so people can comment if they want).

Truth is so obscure in these times, and falsehood so established, that, unless we love the truth, we cannot know it. (Blaise Pascal)

Einstein has some interesting ones of course. I'd previously seen a quote from Einstein about the "music of the spheres" -- he seemed to have a kind of mystical appreciation of the deep mystery of the universe, of physics, of all that is. Searching for that, I first found this just now, new to me:

" In an interview published in George Sylvester Viereck's book Glimpses of the Great (1930), Einstein responded to a question about whether or not he defined himself as a pantheist. He explained:

"Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia
​

 

[halbhh]

People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. (Blaise Pascal)

So true. I often wonder why I don't meet more people that have figured that out and question not merely other people's ideas, but their own.

 

[halbhh]

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."
-- Albert Einstein

 

[PruePhillip]

Alledgedly speaking of the house of david, there is considerable controversy on the understanding and translation.
Many who say there is evidence seem to skip the doubt

In the cultic center of Shilh, destroyed by the Philistines when they took
the Ark of the Covenant, archaeologists found many sacrificed animals.
Skeptics say these could have been Canaanite. The thing is it says in
Leviticus or Deuteronomy that the priest could take of the flesh of a
young male animal on the right side only. As is the case with these
bones. Now, skeptics still say, "These could have been Canaanite."

So yeah, there is bias on both sides.

 

[PruePhillip]

How do they know brain dead have experiences? How are they measured and assessed?

Haven't seen the video in some time. But I think Fenwick said that the EEG
showed there was zero brain activity - but in reviving the patient they speak
of experiences they know nothing about before their clinical death.

 

[ChristineM]

In the cultic center of Shilh, destroyed by the Philistines when they took
the Ark of the Covenant, archaeologists found many sacrificed animals.
Skeptics say these could have been Canaanite. The thing is it says in
Leviticus or Deuteronomy that the priest could take of the flesh of a
young male animal on the right side only. As is the case with these
bones. Now, skeptics still say, "These could have been Canaanite."

So yeah, there is bias on both sides.

Ark of the covenant for one

 

[ChristineM]

Haven't seen the video in some time. But I think Fenwick said that the EEG
showed there was zero brain activity - but in reviving the patient they speak
of experiences they know nothing about before their clinical death.

I actually have experience of this.

My father was mugged, hit across the head with half a brick that broke his skull in several places, he was in a coma for over a month and died 3 times. To this day he says the only reason he is here now is because god is a lousy poker player.

The eeg showed increase in brain activity for several seconds before he died, then no brain activity for a few moments until he was revived.

It is as impossible for a dead brain to think as any other lump of dead material.

 

[PruePhillip]

I actually have experience of this.

My father was mugged, hit across the head with half a brick that broke his skull in several places, he was in a coma for over a month and died 3 times. To this day he says the only reason he is here now is because god is a lousy poker player.

The eeg showed increase in brain activity for several seconds before he died, then no brain activity for a few moments until he was revived.

It is as impossible for a dead brain to think as any other lump of dead material.

Terms such as "think" and "dead" need defining - and we can't do that yet.
Fenwick is a neurologist and clinical psychologist and thus knows more
about these things than most people. He suggested from flat-line EEG's
that maybe "consciousness" might not reside in the brain.

ps did they get the jerk who did this to your father?

 

[PruePhillip]

Ark of the covenant for one

I take it as a given there was an Ark of the Covenant.
In Samuel we read this was captured when the Philistines took Shiloh.
We found the destruction at Shiloh and evidence of its religious significance.
As you saying the rest of the story was made up?
There were people who claimed that WHOLE story was made up a thousand
years later. So there's a retreat - I call this SKEPTICS OF THE GAPS.

 

[ChristineM]

I take it as a given there was an Ark of the Covenant.
In Samuel we read this was captured when the Philistines took Shiloh.
We found the destruction at Shiloh and evidence of its religious significance.
As you saying the rest of the story was made up?
There were people who claimed that WHOLE story was made up a thousand
years later. So there's a retreat - I call this SKEPTICS OF THE GAPS.

Take it as what you want, without evidence or verification it is a myth

 

[ChristineM]

Terms such as "think" and "dead" need defining - and we can't do that yet.
Fenwick is a neurologist and clinical psychologist and thus knows more
about these things than most people. He suggested from flat-line EEG's
that maybe "consciousness" might not reside in the brain.

ps did they get the jerk who did this to your father?

Defined in dictionaries

And i suggest he is talking bullpoop, perhaps a ploy to sell books to the gullible public.

Consciousness is governed by the brain, that's how the body works, to say its not is simple philosophical wishful thinking.

It was jerks, 3 of them, they wound up with 73pence, all the cash dad was carrying and no they were never caught

 

[PruePhillip]

Take it as what you want, without evidence or verification it is a myth

Myth 1 - Shiloh cultic center (where resided the Tabernacle, the Ark and the priesthood)
Myth 2- The Ark was captured
Myth 3 - Shiloh destroyed by the Philistines

So we have recovered number 1 and 3 from the skeptics through archeology.
There is some evidence for the Ark under the Dome of the Rock on the Temple mount.
There appears to be, hewn into the rock floor where the Holiest of Holies was (itself an
established fact) the impression of a rectangular shape and trenches that could correspond
to the handles that lifted the Ark.
Arks were common in the ancient world.

 

[PruePhillip]

Defined in dictionaries

And i suggest he is talking bullpoop, perhaps a ploy to sell books to the gullible public.

Consciousness is governed by the brain, that's how the body works, to say its not is simple philosophical wishful thinking.

It was jerks, 3 of them, they wound up with 73pence, all the cash dad was carrying and no they were never caught

Hang on, you can't say something is "bullpoop" just because you are not comfortable with
the ideas. We don't know yet what consciousness is, or where it resides.

I challenge you to watch this. Fenwick studies "brain and mind."

 

[ChristineM]

Myth 1 - Shiloh cultic center (where resided the Tabernacle, the Ark and the priesthood)
Myth 2- The Ark was captured
Myth 3 - Shiloh destroyed by the Philistines

So we have recovered number 1 and 3 from the skeptics through archeology.
There is some evidence for the Ark under the Dome of the Rock on the Temple mount.
There appears to be, hewn into the rock floor where the Holiest of Holies was (itself an
established fact) the impression of a rectangular shape and trenches that could correspond
to the handles that lifted the Ark.
Arks were common in the ancient world.

It seems you and i have a different threshold of evidence

 

[ChristineM]

Hang on, you can't say something is "bullpoop" just because you are not comfortable with
the ideas. We don't know yet what consciousness is, or where it resides.

I challenge you to watch this. Fenwick studies "brain and mind."

It is not a point of being uncomfortable with it, it is a point of evidence


Consciousness is not a process in the brain but a kind of behaviour that, of course, is controlled by the brain like any other behaviour. Human consciousness emerges on the interface between three components of animal behavior: communication, play, and the use of tools.
Human Consciousness: Where Is It From and What Is It for

 

[PruePhillip]

It is not a point of being uncomfortable with it, it is a point of evidence


Consciousness is not a process in the brain but a kind of behaviour that, of course, is controlled by the brain like any other behaviour. Human consciousness emerges on the interface between three components of animal behavior: communication, play, and the use of tools.
Human Consciousness: Where Is It From and What Is It for

There is no agreed definition of the word consciousness. We assume it's in the
brain, but we can't tell because we don't know what it is.

 

[PruePhillip]

It seems you and i have a different threshold of evidence

No-one can believe ALL the bible (ie its contradictions and symbolic language)
No-one disbelieves ALL the bible (ie archaeology, history, DNA etc..)
We all fall somewhere in between.

If you have anything on the Shiloh story, for instance, I encourage you to share
it. I plan on going there next year - but I am not an archaeologist.

 

[ChristineM]

There is no agreed definition of the word consciousness. We assume it's in the
brain, but we can't tell because we don't know what it is.

We do know what it is, it is well definef, but some people don't want to know what it is because they like their illusions of supernatural or god magic or similar imaginary ideas

Definition
Consciousness
1 the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings
2 a person's awareness or perception of something.

Recent research has apparantly found the seat if consciousness in 3 areas of the brain (i bet thats one in the eye for Fenwick)

 

[ChristineM]

No-one can believe ALL the bible (ie its contradictions and symbolic language)
No-one disbelieves ALL the bible (ie archaeology, history, DNA etc..)
We all fall somewhere in between.

If you have anything on the Shiloh story, for instance, I encourage you to share
it. I plan on going there next year - but I am not an archaeologist.

Many do believe the bible and take if literally

And like all good books, the author put an element of truth to make it believable.

I know little about Shiloh other than general reading and a year when the history of the ancient middle east was a first year elective