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Quotation Mark confusion

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
First, an example:

Let's assume that you were to write ...

The facts mentioned in the article were enough to convince me.​

... and I responded with either:
  1. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts."
  2. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts".
Which is grammatically correct and why?

And what if I responded with either:
  1. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts?"
  2. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts"?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
First, an example:

Let's assume that you were to write ...

The facts mentioned in the article were enough to convince me.​

... and I responded with either:
  1. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts."
  2. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts".
Which is grammatically correct and why?

And what if I responded with either:
  1. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts?"
  2. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts"?

This differs between American and British English, and the predominant style guides of each have different usage recommendations concerning this.

For American English, both the Modern Language Association style guide and the Chicago Manual of Style recommend placing commas and periods inside the quotation marks, while other punctuation marks have context-dependent rules. For the purpose of this thread, I will get into the rules for commas, periods, exclamation marks, and question marks below.

Consider the following sentence:

Did Peter say, "I met Christine yesterday"?

The quote doesn't contain a question, but the whole sentence does, so the question mark goes outside. Contrast the above sentence with the following two:

Peter said, "Have you met Christine today?"

The whole sentence doesn't contain a question, but the quotation does, so the question mark goes inside.

Did Peter say, "Have you met Christine today?"

The whole sentence and the quotation each include a question, so the question mark goes inside.

The above usage in all of these cases is instructed by many style guides of American English, including the APA style guide.

The same applies to exclamation marks: they go inside when they're a part of the quotation but outside when they're not a part of the quotation and are, instead, used to convey the emotion of the quoter:

I can't believe that Peter said, "I don't want to meet Christine"!

Contrast this with the following, where the exclamation mark conveys Peter's strong emotion and is a part of his own message:

I can't believe that Peter messaged me to say, "I just don't want to meet Christine!"

For British English, the rules are more nuanced. The University of Oxford Style Guide recommends placing punctuation marks, including commas and periods, outside the quotations if they are not a part of the quoted material but inside if they are or if the original material would have required them as punctuation.

Consider the following sentence:

Martha, are you going to work tomorrow?

Let's say you want to quote the above as a sentence you previously said. Per the abovementioned style guide, it should be rendered thus:

'Martha,' I said, 'are you going to work tomorrow?'

The comma is a part of the original sentence, as is the question mark, so they both go inside the quotation. Let's now consider a different example:

Martha is not going to work tomorrow.

Quoting yourself later on, you would, per the Oxford style guide, write it thus:

'Martha', I said, 'is not going to work tomorrow.'

The comma after "Martha" is not a part of the original sentence, so it goes outside the quotation. On the other hand, the period is, so it goes inside.

You will find some sources stating a supposed blanket rule where commas and periods always go outside quotations in British English but always inside in American English. This is incorrect and unnuanced, as demonstrated by the recommendations of the Oxford style guide.

To specifically address the examples in the OP:

First, an example:

Let's assume that you were to write ...

The facts mentioned in the article were enough to convince me.​

... and I responded with either:
  1. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts."
  2. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts".
Which is grammatically correct and why?

The first is correct per predominantly recommended usage in American English, because the period goes inside the quotation even if it is not a part of the original sentence or required therein.

The second is correct per predominantly recommended usage in British English, because the word "facts" is not followed by a period in the original sentence, nor does it require it therein.

And what if I responded with either:
  1. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts?"
  2. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts"?

The second is the correct usage in both varieties of English. The question is asked about the whole sentence, and the quotation (i.e., "facts") doesn't include a question belonging to the original sentence.

I hope this helps!
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
First, an example:

Let's assume that you were to write ...

The facts mentioned in the article were enough to convince me.​

... and I responded with either:
  1. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts."
  2. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts".
Which is grammatically correct and why?

And what if I responded with either:
  1. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts?"
  2. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts"?
It is commonly agreed that the punctuation ending a sentence or query is written inside the quotation marks. Therefore, in both cases, number 1 is correct .
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
It is commonly agreed that the punctuation ending a sentence or query is written inside the quotation marks. Therefore, in both cases, number 1 is correct .
That is my understanding as well. I just find the common agreement uncommonly disagreeable. But, then again, my grammatical ineptitude is legendary. :(
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
That is my understanding as well. I just find the common agreement uncommonly disagreeable. But, then again, my grammatical ineptitude is legendary. :(
AS DS said, Brits and US folks have different rules, so if you read a lot of non-US literature you'll come across differing punctuation here. Brits put it outside the other punctuation (e.g., outside the brackets) or outside quotation marks unless the punctuation is part of the quote.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
First, an example:

Let's assume that you were to write ...

The facts mentioned in the article were enough to convince me.​

... and I responded with either:
  1. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts."
  2. Perhaps "claims" would be preferable to "facts".
Which is grammatically correct and why?

And what if I responded with either:
  1. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts?"
  2. Would not "claims" be preferable to "facts"?
Well, there are the official grammar rules, and then there is why I consciously refuse to follow them in certain instances.

The rule of thumb is, the punctuation mark is always placed inside the quotes. Don't ask me why. I don't know. But it's tradition. I was taught this in every single last composition class I took, and given that my minor is English composition, I took quite a few back in the early 90's. I suppose it is possible that they were all mistaken, but I find that unlikely.

Now in your first example with the period, both examples communicate adequately. So, while it irritates me to have the period inside the quotes, I comply with the tradition.

However, when it comes to question marks, that is not the case. Always placing the question mark inside the quotes directly leads to ambiguity, and if a rule doesn't increase communication, then it should be broken.

For example, if I say,
Are you sure he said, "She's coming?"
It is not clear if the question mark refers to "Are you sure he said" or if he was asking if she were coming.

This is why I routinely and deliberately break this grammar rule. If I have to choose between effectively communicating and keeping a rule, I'll choose the former every day of the week.
 
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