• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Quick question.I am confused.:(

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
My answer is probably not. There are those who can astral travel, but the station of the Christ is far above the astral. I've been told there are all sorts of entities on the astral, some well meaning, some tricksters and some negative.

Personally I'm happy not to have to personally deal with this issue and to work on feeling God's presence in my heart.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?

I suggest that from a science point of view this is nonsense.
And from a Christian point of view it's also nonsense.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
I think it might be astral projection too.But i believe if you pray long enough God can get you out of body.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?

Our brain does a mighty job of hiding the truth from us. We feel as though we are a solid, singular entity, with our mind and body combined and secure in their rightful places, a monolith in the cosmos. OBEs unravel this sense of self, proving that we are little more than a skillful neurological illusion after all.
Out-of-body experiences: Neuroscience or the paranormal?

IMO, there's no reason to think the brain is not capable of providing an OBE. We can do it consciously, imagine being in a location that is somewhere outside of our body. No reason to think this couldn't happen as an subconscious process as well.

Having a conscious OBE is easy, you just imagine yourself somewhere else. If you work at it one can bring a lot of reality to the experience. VR basically provides an OBE. Some get more affected by this than others.

475dadaa91f2e06a9cfb6fdc453407c3.gif


Are we even in the body? If so, where exactly are we located?
I'm not claiming it doesn't happen but relying on feelings and a perception of being someplace else by itself doesn't prove much.
 
Last edited:

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Our brain does a mighty job of hiding the truth from us. We feel as though we are a solid, singular entity, with our mind and body combined and secure in their rightful places, a monolith in the cosmos. OBEs unravel this sense of self, proving that we are little more than a skillful neurological illusion after all.
Out-of-body experiences: Neuroscience or the paranormal?

Probably true. But is often the case, it's more complicated.
Two family members of mine went through near death experiences.
One nearly died due to a penicillin reaction and said he was hovering
over the operating table. You could put it down to brain function I guess.
But the other member experienced "sympathetic near death experience"
when another member was dying. This can't be explained.
Nor, for that matter, can we explain some of the strange phenomena of
telepathic twins.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?

No. sorry that is not possible. The Bible says that only those who are chosen to rule with Christ in heaven will ever talk face to face with Jesus.....and only after they are resurrected.

These religious concepts rely on the belief that you have a conscious part of yourself that can travel outside of the body. That is a spiritistic concept because the Bible teaches that your consciousness is inextricably tied to your living brain. There is no invisible part of us that can go anywhere. But the brain itself is an amazing organ. It is capable of fooling itself with delusions and hallucinations....add to that a deceiver who will manipulate those factors and you have a recipe for confusion.

Fascination with the occult (which literally means "hidden") is due to curiosity about things we just don't know, and want to find out. But if we use the Bible to explain many things, the doubts are removed and we have answers to so many questions without running the risk of being taken in by a master deceiver. That is how I see things.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
No. sorry that is not possible. The Bible says that only those who are chosen to rule with Christ in heaven will ever talk face to face with Jesus.....and only after they are resurrected.

These religious concepts rely on the belief that you have a conscious part of yourself that can travel outside of the body. That is a spiritistic concept because the Bible teaches that your consciousness is inextricably tied to your living brain. There is no invisible part of us that can go anywhere. But the brain itself is an amazing organ. It is capable of fooling itself with delusions and hallucinations....add to that a deceiver who will manipulate those factors and you have a recipe for confusion.

Fascination with the occult (which literally means "hidden") is due to curiosity about things we just don't know, and want to find out. But if we use the Bible to explain many things, the doubts are removed and we have answers to so many questions without running the risk of being taken in by a master deceiver. That is how I see things.

Agreed. People go on about doctrines (ie transubstantiation)
and love of mystery (ie when will Christ return) as a way of
ignoring what we are supposed to know (ie Sermon on the
Mount etc..)
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Just an FYI, there is the God Helmet.
The Shiva God Helmet, Endorsed by Dr. M.A. Persinger. |

ani_koren_helm.gif


$650 + shipping and you too can meet God. Unfortunately it's not guaranteed to work on skeptics. Looks like it could double as a, very expensive, motorcycle helmet. Though it's probably not a good idea to try and meet God while your are actually driving a motorcycle.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?

I personally wouldn't agree... but ultimately it is their saying it vs my understanding.
 
Some people i have meet say they can leave their body at will and talk to jesus in heaven.Is that true?The people i am talking about are part of two different religions.The two names are the religion of eckankar.And the religion of gnosticism.So what are these two religions about?Can they really leave their bodies at will and talk to jesus?

I believe it.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Gnosticism is more about internally knowing god from experience than techniques such as leaving the body. Those are not things all (or even many?) gnostics or neognostics do. I (or you) could probably do the OBE thing though I'm not making claims what it is or if you could meet someone specific there.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
$650 + shipping and you too can meet God. Unfortunately it's not guaranteed to work on skeptics. Looks like it could double as a, very expensive, motorcycle helmet. Though it's probably not a good idea to try and meet God while your are actually driving a motorcycle.
I'd be very interested to try that and see if there were commonalities with my experiences of God or not. It's quite telling that skeptics and believers would experience different things though, so I'm not that excited about it.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Probably true. But is often the case, it's more complicated.
Two family members of mine went through near death experiences.
One nearly died due to a penicillin reaction and said he was hovering
over the operating table. You could put it down to brain function I guess.
But the other member experienced "sympathetic near death experience"
when another member was dying. This can't be explained.
Nor, for that matter, can we explain some of the strange phenomena of
telepathic twins.
That isn’t more complicated at all, it’s just proponents of magical explanations try to make it appear more complicated because they have no concrete explanations for their beliefs. “Can’t explain” means “can’t explain” so defining experiences with an explanation (“telepathic”, “out of body experience”) is flawed at best, dishonest at worst. The fact remains that there are known and demonstrated mundane brain functions that could account for all of these experiences. They’re not definitive but they offer realistic possibilities. There is currently absolutely no viable hypothesis and certainly no definitive evidence for any kind of paranormal or supernatural explanations and until any such hypothesis has been presented, I don’t see it as a legitimate consideration at all.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
That isn’t more complicated at all, it’s just proponents of magical explanations try to make it appear more complicated because they have no concrete explanations for their beliefs. “Can’t explain” means “can’t explain” so defining experiences with an explanation (“telepathic”, “out of body experience”) is flawed at best, dishonest at worst. The fact remains that there are known and demonstrated mundane brain functions that could account for all of these experiences. They’re not definitive but they offer realistic possibilities. There is currently absolutely no viable hypothesis and certainly no definitive evidence for any kind of paranormal or supernatural explanations and until any such hypothesis has been presented, I don’t see it as a legitimate consideration at all.

Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.
I cite the twins as examples of things we simply don't know about.
I am 100% sure that when one twin knows something about the
state of the other, regardless of the distance between them (as
has been documented) that some phenomena is at work - perhaps
quantum entanglement or some such thing. But it's irritating when
people will say "There's no explanation how twins can telepathically
communicate, therefor it doesn't happen."

As a rule. If people keep reporting strange things over long periods
of time then you can sure there's some real going on.
The Loch Ness monster phenomena led to an understanding of
deep and narrow lochs where warm water overlays cold water,
and you can have cold underwater "waves."
And in Australia the aboriginal "min-min light" which "follows you
at night was shown to be light being channeled between layers
of cold and warm air over vast distances.
So there WAS something in the loch, and lights which "follow"
you at night.

Now think ghosts and aliens.
:)
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.
A bit of both. I agree with the general point of there being events and experiences we don’t (yet) have explanations for. I don’t agree that they should be at all associated with the topic of “communicating with Jesus in heaven” and I don’t think they should be labelled with terms like “telepathic” because that implies an explanation by definition and we’ve literally just said we don’t have one.

I cite the twins as examples of things we simply don't know about.
I am 100% sure that when one twin knows something about the
state of the other, regardless of the distance between them (as
has been documented) that some phenomena is at work - perhaps
quantum entanglement or some such thing. But it's irritating when
people will say "There's no explanation how twins can telepathically
communicate, therefor it doesn't happen."
Well for a start, I question the certainty you express about the events that have been documented or the level of consistent experience implied. Lots of different things are claimed about twins, few if any have been definitively proven or even properly tested.

The main problem is the fuzzing of the line between the event and the explanation. You use the word “telepathically” again there when there is zero basis for doing so. I’m happy to say “Telepathy doesn’t happen” here because it hasn’t even been properly defined. If someone says “Twins sometimes appear to share knowledge or feelings when physically separated” that’s fine as a description of events. If someone says “Twins sometimes appear to communicate telepathically” that’s attributing an explanation for how the event occurred. Challenging the latter isn’t a denial of the former, though the difficulty of making the distinction can make it sound like it is.

Without those challenges though, we get the huge leaps from people occasionally having strange and indistinct memories following extreme clinical trauma to people declaring they can leave their body to talk to Jesus in heaven and other people needing to ask if that is a valid assertion!
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
A bit of both. I agree with the general point of there being events and experiences we don’t (yet) have explanations for. I don’t agree that they should be at all associated with the topic of “communicating with Jesus in heaven” and I don’t think they should be labelled with terms like “telepathic” because that implies an explanation by definition and we’ve literally just said we don’t have one.

Well for a start, I question the certainty you express about the events that have been documented or the level of consistent experience implied. Lots of different things are claimed about twins, few if any have been definitively proven or even properly tested.

The main problem is the fuzzing of the line between the event and the explanation. You use the word “telepathically” again there when there is zero basis for doing so. I’m happy to say “Telepathy doesn’t happen” here because it hasn’t even been properly defined. If someone says “Twins sometimes appear to share knowledge or feelings when physically separated” that’s fine as a description of events. If someone says “Twins sometimes appear to communicate telepathically” that’s attributing an explanation for how the event occurred. Challenging the latter isn’t a denial of the former, though the difficulty of making the distinction can make it sound like it is.

Without those challenges though, we get the huge leaps from people occasionally having strange and indistinct memories following extreme clinical trauma to people declaring they can leave their body to talk to Jesus in heaven and other people needing to ask if that is a valid assertion!

Thanks. I grew up with the controversy over "continental drift."
People lost tenure at universities for teaching the subject.
The world is far more stranger place than we can imagine.

I worked for a guy who's brother vanished in 1976 - the famous
Frederick Valentich case.

There's two problems with this weird stuff - believers and disbelievers.
It's right to be skeptical, but don't be TOO skeptical. There's weird things
out there.
 
Top