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Questions on Luciferianism for Danisty

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Katzpur, Sep 16, 2007.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hey, Danisty! :shout

    I have some questions for you. Since we currently have no forum on RF for a one-on-one discussion (not debate), I'm just going to ask the other RFers to respect my wishes and allow me to ask Danisty a few questions about her beliefs. I would prefer that no other posters contribute to this conversation. Danisty, let me know when you've spotted this thread. I hope I won't have to bump it too many times before you do.
     
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  2. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    *bump*

    Danisty,

    From what source or sources does your information on Lucifer come?
    Is there some specific reason why you do not believe Lucifer is the same individual as Satan?
    Do you also believe in Satan, and if so, what is your opinion of him?
     
  3. rojse

    rojse RF Addict

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    I understand that Luciferianism has the idea of putting yourself and close friends and family first, but where does the fallen angel, Lucifer, come into this?
     
  4. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    I promise to get back to this thread later. I'm super busy right now. :sorry1:
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    :sad:Okie dokie. Just don't forget, 'cause I really want to discuss some stuff with you.
     
  6. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let's do it. :D

    There is really no source that is exempt from Luciferian study. If I wanted to, I could search the Quran for passages that are Luciferian in nature. Mostly though, my source is the Bible, the Gnostic (and other apocryphal) texts, and personal revelation. Think of it like having the Holy Spirit, except that instead I have a "Fallen" Guardian Angel. :p

    Well, the Bible never states outright that they are the same entity and since they're personalities are different, it seems obvious to me that they are separate individuals. However, since not one of us can prove anything about the Bible, I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. I only expect people to respect that Luciferianism and Satanism are not the same religion.

    I do believe in Satan. I don't have any problems with him at all. He's just not my type. Imagine you have the choice in hanging out with a biker or a beatnik. You might not have anything against the biker, but you'd still rather spend your time with the beatnik. Did that make sense?
     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Except that from your perspective, Lucifer is not "fallen," is he? I mean, I'm assuming you think he was cast out of heaven, but I gather you don't believe his punishment was just. Or am I mistaken? Do you really see him as the "good guy"? If so, why? Do you believe he was justified in rebelling against God or not? Since the Bible doesn't tell us a great deal about Lucifer, what have you learned about him from the Bible? What has the Quran taught you about him? And what insights has personal revelation given you? I'm trying to figure out whether you see him as a deity or not. In other words, do you believe he wants you to follow him, to worship him, to praise him, to emulate him, etc. And what do you get out of your relationship with him?

    I can respect that Luciferianism and Satanism are not the same religion, even though I personally believe that Lucifer and Satan are not one and the same. What differences do you see in their personalities? Do you believe Satan to be Lucifer's peer or follower or what?

    Sure. Since you "don't have any problems with him," how do you see him? Would you mind comparing your understanding of Satan with your understanding of Lucifer and then try to explain why you like the idea of "hanging out" with Lucifer? What kind of a person do you think he would like you to be and why? Or does he even care? How does your religion make you a better person?

    I'm sorry for asking so many questions. In some cases I was just trying to find the right words and so I probably repeated myself. Hopefully, you'll be able to understand what I was getting at and not feel as if you have to respond to each question if a prior answer has addressed the point. Thanks in advance. :)
     
  8. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Right. That's why I put fallen in quotes. He more or less jumped. I don't believe the punishment was just but he knew what the consequences would be anyway. That's why it's a sacrifice.

    Yes, I see Lucifer as a good guy because he freed us from the Garden of Eden. It's not much different from the Gnostic concept...just substitute Lucifer for snake. :D Justified by who's standards? Mine? Of course. Obviously not justified by God's standards, but I don't give him any special favors. If a tyrannical ruler was brainwashing and enslaving his people, would it be justified? Is Kim Jong-Il justified? I don't think so.

    I've learned less about Lucifer from the Bible than I've learned about God. What I know from the Bible is that Lucifer opposed him and I can only see that as a noble act because what I see of God is very disturbing to me.

    Nothing. I've never read it. I was just making the point that I could use it if I wanted. I'm sure I"ll read it someday though.

    Well if you define a deity as someone you have to follow or worship, then I guess the answer's no. That's not how I define deity. Lucifer prefers peers...people who are independent and ambitious. It's not a parent-child relationship like a Christian generally has with God. It's more of a brother-sister type thing. He's been around longer and he has more experience, but he's not fundamentally better than me. We are different, naturally, but what do differences mean anyway? Of course it's beyond that as well since I see it as every relationship that's possible. I do praise him though and who wouldn't love that? I know I like it why I get praise. :p I do also try to emulate him in that I will stand for what I believe is right. I won't just sit by and observe injustice. I also take his lead in terms of educating myself...to know everything I can know. It's a task that's never completed. I do these things though because I know that they are right. I found an ally in Lucifer...not the other way around. Doing these things simply because it pleases him is not a good basis for a religious belief, in my opinion.

    The greatest gift I've been given from Lucifer is confidence. I used to second-guess myself quite a bit and it was interfering greatly with my life. I've had many lessons since then though. If you pay attention, there's a message. I'm sure as a theist you understand that. I also have companionship. I know I'm not alone. If it weren't for Lucifer, I'm quite sure I would have gone nuts these past 6 months with my husband being away. In times of uncertainty, he guides me. I imagine aside from the extended relationship, it's not too different from what most people feel towards their deity of choice.

    Satan and Lucifer are peers. They basically deal with different things though. It would be like working in two different departments for the same university. Satan's in the rebellion and animalistic urges department and Lucifer's in the personal development and education department. Both serve their purposes to the same end. Of course that's highly oversimplified. Think of Lucifer as a bit more refined than Satan. No offense intended toward any Satanists. I'm just answering a question I've been asked to answer. :D

    If you want to continue an analogy of hanging out, I would say you could find Satan at just about any club anywhere. You're more likely to find Lucifer at a small locally-owned bookstore/cafe or a classy jazz bar. Hanging out with Lucifer would be my preference because I'd rather play a game of chess than a game of billiards.

    Lucifer wants me to be a thinking person. Never stop thinking, never stop learning, never stop growing. He wants me to be a person who sees things for what they are and acts when necessary. Lucifer wants me to have experiences both good and bad. He wants me to be human. Being Luciferian makes me a kinder, happier and more open-minded person. I've accepted that life isn't fair and I have to learn ways of coping with that stress. It's my responsibility to make a life I want to live. I do want him to be proud of me. Can there be any bigger compliment?

    No problem. Ask away. I actually prefer talking about my religion in the form of questions and answers. It's easier to figure out exactly what you want to know that way.
     
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  9. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Wow! This is all very, very interesting! I know I'll have some more questions soon. I just need to be able to sift through what you've said so far and formulate them. Right now I have just one: I know that Luciferians don't get together and worship like Christians do, but are your beliefs and insights about Lucifer pretty much your own, or is there actually a group of people who believe pretty much as you do?
     
  10. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    Both. They are my own. I formulated them myself and began calling myself a Luciferian before I knew that anyone else called themselves Luciferian. Many of the other Luciferians I met online 4-ish years ago had done the same thing. We all came to mostly the same conclusions on our own.
     
  11. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Interesting. Do you have any idea at all how many people there are worldwide who consider themselves Luciferians?
     
  12. Ðanisty

    Ðanisty Well-Known Member

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    No clue. I'm sure it's not that many...lol.
     
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