Questions from an Atheist about God

[Nimos]

Edit: This is aimed mainly at Christians that believe that God is Ultimately good and all knowing. others are welcome to share their views as well.

I watch a lot of debates between atheist and religious people, in fact I have watched so many that I can't even count them.

However one thing that bothers me about the whole discussion and that never seems to be very well answered, at least not to my satisfaction, is the claim that God is all knowing and all good, at least that is the general impression I get and hear a lot. But I have never felt that the religious side of the debate have really justified why that is the case, except that it is stated in the bible. Which, maybe not all that unexpected is not really a good answer for an atheist.

My own view on the whole matter is that people can believe what they want, im not an "anti" religious atheist. As I do think that religion in some places can add value to our lives. But I do however think that any belief that affect ones society ought to justify it self of why they should be treated different and why there should be benefits for them due to this. This is not only in regards to religion, but could be the same for atheist, had they some benefits.

The list of questions consists of 10 main ones and some secondary ones, that bothers me and hope that someone can answer and share their views on.

I don't expect people to "speak" for God, simply to share their opinion and justifications on the topics as they see them.

If you don't think some of the questions are clear enough let me know and ill try to explain them better.

Questions.

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong, without knowing the difference between good and evil?

a. If the answer is no: How do you justify that God punishes Adam and Eve when they don't know the difference between them? And what reason would Eve have to assume that the snake is trying to deceive her?

b. If the answer is yes: Can you give an example of it?

2. It is written in the Bible Genesis "3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."

Why do you believe God made the serpent more crafty than all the other animals? Why is it important for it to be highlighted in the text?

3. The above text say that God created the serpent and its believed that this is Satan

why do you think God allowed Satan do to evil in the Garden of eden?

4. The following is from Genesis 1 6,6: "6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

if God knows everything and can do anything he wants, how is it possible for him to regret, wouldn't he be able to foresee this?

5. God is commonly referred to as being ultimately good and unable to lie. In Deuteronomy 21,18-21 the law says the following: "18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."

Given the ability to distinguish good from evil, do you think this is a good way of dealing with such issue or a bad way?

Why do you believe that God, which is all good, thought that death were the best solution to this problem?

Do you agree with the statement that a son per definition should obey their parents, regardless of how the parents might behave?

Do you consider the punishment of death for being stubborn and rebellious towards your parents, justified or a murder?

a. If you consider it murder, doesn't it conflict with one of the ten commandments?

b. If you believe it is justifiable, why do you think that such law is not in effect today, at least in most countries and would you support such law, knowing that God is only good and unable to do evil?

6. Also in Deuteronomy 25, 11 it says the following: "11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Of all the things God can do, why do you think this topic were so important that it needed to be added to the law? And do you think that the punishment for it is justifiable?

7. Deuteronomy 22, 28-29 it says the following: "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Do you believe that a women or father experiencing something as described above, would agree with this being the definitely best way to solve the issue?

Do you think rape (only if discovered) as a crime ought to be considered worse than being stubborn?

8. Based on the previous questions and given the ability to know the difference between good and evil, can you explain why God is considered ultimately good?

9. Regardless of whether the law is in effect or not, can you explain how something that is considered all knowing and all powerful decided that this were the best laws, what do you think is his reasons for them to be like that?

10. Can you think of any more reasonable laws with more justifiable punishments than those God made in the laws mentioned above, even though you are not all powerful and ultimately good?

The only thing, I would like people not to do, is use the phrase "God work in mysteries ways", "We just can't understand God" etc. Be honest and just write "I don't know" if you have no answer to a specific question.

Thanks

 

[Brickjectivity]

I watch a lot of debates between atheist and religious people, in fact I have watched so many that I can't even count them.

However one thing that bothers me about the whole discussion and that never seems to be very well answered, at least not to my satisfaction, is the claim that God is all knowing and all good, at least that is the general impression I get and hear a lot. But I have never felt that the religious side of the debate have really justified why that is the case, except that it is stated in the bible. Which, maybe not all that unexpected is not really a good answer for an atheist.

My own view on the whole matter is that people can believe what they want, im not an "anti" religious atheist. As I do think that religion in some places can add value to our lives. But I do however think that any belief that affect ones society ought to justify it self of why they should be treated different and why there should be benefits for them due to this. This is not only in regards to religion, but could be the same for atheist, had they some benefits.

The list of questions consists of 10 main ones and some secondary ones, that bothers me and hope that someone can answer and share their views on.

I don't expect people to "speak" for God, simply to share their opinion and justifications on the topics as they see them.

If you don't think some of the questions are clear enough let me know and ill try to explain them better.

Questions.

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong, without knowing the difference between good and evil?

a. If the answer is no: How do you justify that God punishes Adam and Eve when they don't know the difference between them? And what reason would Eve have to assume that the snake is trying to deceive her?

b. If the answer is yes: Can you give an example of it?

2. It is written in the Bible Genesis "3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."

Why do you believe God made the serpent more crafty than all the other animals? Why is it important for it to be highlighted in the text?

3. The above text say that God created the serpent and its believed that this is Satan

why do you think God allowed Satan do to evil in the Garden of eden?

4. The following is from Genesis 1 6,6: "6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

if God knows everything and can do anything he wants, how is it possible for him to regret, wouldn't he be able to foresee this?

5. God is commonly referred to as being ultimately good and unable to lie. In Deuteronomy 21,18-21 the law says the following: "18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."

Given the ability to distinguish good from evil, do you think this is a good way of dealing with such issue or a bad way?

Why do you believe that God, which is all good, thought that death were the best solution to this problem?

Do you agree with the statement that a son per definition should obey their parents, regardless of how the parents might behave?

Do you consider the punishment of death for being stubborn and rebellious towards your parents, justified or a murder?

a. If you consider it murder, doesn't it conflict with one of the ten commandments?

b. If you believe it is justifiable, why do you think that such law is not in effect today, at least in most countries and would you support such law, knowing that God is only good and unable to do evil?

6. Also in Deuteronomy 25, 11 it says the following: "11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Of all the things God can do, why do you think this topic were so important that it needed to be added to the law? And do you think that the punishment for it is justifiable?

7. Deuteronomy 22, 28-29 it says the following: "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Do you believe that a women or father experiencing something as described above, would agree with this being the definitely best way to solve the issue?

Do you think rape (only if discovered) as a crime ought to be considered worse than being stubborn?

8. Based on the previous questions and given the ability to know the difference between good and evil, can you explain why God is considered ultimately good?

9. Regardless of whether the law is in effect or not, can you explain how something that is considered all knowing and all powerful decided that this were the best laws, what do you think is his reasons for them to be like that?

10. Can you think of any more reasonable laws with more justifiable punishments than those God made in the laws mentioned above, even though you are not all powerful and ultimately good?

The only thing, I would like people not to do, is use the phrase "God work in mysteries ways", "We just can't understand God" etc. Be honest and just write "I don't know" if you have no answer to a specific question.

Thanks

Unfortunately there is not enough room in a thread to discuss all of your many objections, and also I think that your questions are only applicable to a limited set of religious people and also a limited set within that limited set.

On RF we have Hindus, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Muslims, Jews, Mainstream Protestants, 7th Day Adventists, JW's, Anglicans, LDS etc etc. Your points just do not coincide. You need to be more specific, do more research, find out who believes what.

Where you speak about the laws of God, I have to say you don't represent those well either. Its not reasonable to expect to receive an education in them in a debate, either.

 

[sun rise]

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong, without knowing the difference between good and evil?

Ideas of right/wrong, good/evil have varied in different times and in different cultures. The US Civil War was fought about whether or not slavery was good or evil. That tells me that people's opinions differ even when using the same religious base.

But to me we're also evolving to a more advanced view of how we should treat each other and the world we live on.

8. Based on the previous questions and given the ability to know the difference between good and evil, can you explain why God is considered ultimately good?

To me, God is beyond the common duality of good and evil which are products of the human ego. God to me is ultimate Truth beyond human-perceived duality.

10. Can you think of any more reasonable laws with more justifiable punishments than those God made in the laws mentioned above, even though you are not all powerful and ultimately good?

To me doing "good" seeking rewards and avoiding "evil" from fear of punishment is not the ideal. I like how Rabia, a famous female sufi personage put it

O God! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell
If I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise.
But if I worship You for Your Own sake,
begrudge me not Your everlasting Beauty.
​

And as far as what people should do, if God were standing next to you, what would you feel comfortable doing and what would make you feel uncomfortable? That to me, is what we should or should not do.

 

[osgart]

The first sin was the failure to trust good; God, and instead trust evil; the serpent.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an outward manifestation of a sin they committed before they carried out the action of eating from that tree. There was the presence of good and evil before the act was committed. Adam and Eve should have trusted God's command, and allowance.

Evil is the canker sore in an otherwise once perfect act of creation. The angels were the first creation, and 1/3 turned on God. Evil did not exist ever before. It was invented by an angel. For whatever reason God did not account for this at first. Then God kicked out those evil angels and furthered his plans by creating The Garden of Eden to prove and test His creations.

I am not a Bible believer, but i suspect God made a plan to defeat evil once and for all so that evil would never ever have the possibility of ever existing again. We of earth are living out God's plan to end evil forever. The Bible makes the claim that one day you will never ever able see evil ever again somewhere in the kjv.

So heaven and earth would be the battleground to end evil, and perhaps this is the only way it can be accomplished. Through God's son at the cross, and through the believers faith. The kjv says that believers are more than conquerors through Jesus.

I am interested in The Bible because im trying to find a consistent literary theme that makes the story coherent. But you bring up The Torah and Deuteronomy and i cannot justify many of those laws.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I'm not going to attempt to answer all your questions. My knowledge of God is my own personal feeling that life can not be an accident of Evolution. I'm not saying that Evolution is false; only that an Intelligence learned to use evolution to make what He (genderless) wanted.

I also feel that those who believe in God should become better people because of that knowledge. Sadly, I and most others have not done that. The failure of the religions does not mean that God does not exist, only that we have not done a good job in interpreting his will and following it.

 

[sealchan]

I watch a lot of debates between atheist and religious people, in fact I have watched so many that I can't even count them.

However one thing that bothers me about the whole discussion and that never seems to be very well answered, at least not to my satisfaction, is the claim that God is all knowing and all good, at least that is the general impression I get and hear a lot. But I have never felt that the religious side of the debate have really justified why that is the case, except that it is stated in the bible. Which, maybe not all that unexpected is not really a good answer for an atheist.

My own view on the whole matter is that people can believe what they want, im not an "anti" religious atheist. As I do think that religion in some places can add value to our lives. But I do however think that any belief that affect ones society ought to justify it self of why they should be treated different and why there should be benefits for them due to this. This is not only in regards to religion, but could be the same for atheist, had they some benefits.

The list of questions consists of 10 main ones and some secondary ones, that bothers me and hope that someone can answer and share their views on.

I don't expect people to "speak" for God, simply to share their opinion and justifications on the topics as they see them.

If you don't think some of the questions are clear enough let me know and ill try to explain them better.

Questions.

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong, without knowing the difference between good and evil?

a. If the answer is no: How do you justify that God punishes Adam and Eve when they don't know the difference between them? And what reason would Eve have to assume that the snake is trying to deceive her?

b. If the answer is yes: Can you give an example of it?

2. It is written in the Bible Genesis "3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made."

Why do you believe God made the serpent more crafty than all the other animals? Why is it important for it to be highlighted in the text?

3. The above text say that God created the serpent and its believed that this is Satan

why do you think God allowed Satan do to evil in the Garden of eden?

4. The following is from Genesis 1 6,6: "6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."

if God knows everything and can do anything he wants, how is it possible for him to regret, wouldn't he be able to foresee this?

5. God is commonly referred to as being ultimately good and unable to lie. In Deuteronomy 21,18-21 the law says the following: "18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid."

Given the ability to distinguish good from evil, do you think this is a good way of dealing with such issue or a bad way?

Why do you believe that God, which is all good, thought that death were the best solution to this problem?

Do you agree with the statement that a son per definition should obey their parents, regardless of how the parents might behave?

Do you consider the punishment of death for being stubborn and rebellious towards your parents, justified or a murder?

a. If you consider it murder, doesn't it conflict with one of the ten commandments?

b. If you believe it is justifiable, why do you think that such law is not in effect today, at least in most countries and would you support such law, knowing that God is only good and unable to do evil?

6. Also in Deuteronomy 25, 11 it says the following: "11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity."

Of all the things God can do, why do you think this topic were so important that it needed to be added to the law? And do you think that the punishment for it is justifiable?

7. Deuteronomy 22, 28-29 it says the following: "28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[c] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

Do you believe that a women or father experiencing something as described above, would agree with this being the definitely best way to solve the issue?

Do you think rape (only if discovered) as a crime ought to be considered worse than being stubborn?

8. Based on the previous questions and given the ability to know the difference between good and evil, can you explain why God is considered ultimately good?

9. Regardless of whether the law is in effect or not, can you explain how something that is considered all knowing and all powerful decided that this were the best laws, what do you think is his reasons for them to be like that?

10. Can you think of any more reasonable laws with more justifiable punishments than those God made in the laws mentioned above, even though you are not all powerful and ultimately good?

The only thing, I would like people not to do, is use the phrase "God work in mysteries ways", "We just can't understand God" etc. Be honest and just write "I don't know" if you have no answer to a specific question.

Thanks

I recommend you break this thread up into series of threads with some space of time in-between (maybe just a day). I think you will greatly increase participation that way.

 

[dingdao]

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong

Right and wrong is a legalism or philosophy that you either accept from someone or work out for yourself.

2. Now the serpent was more crafty...

The snake represents sex. The desire to reproduce, which cannot be ignored.

3. The above text say that God created the serpent and its believed that this is Satan

That is the way we treat sex.

4. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

Let's hold a pity party.

7. Deuteronomy 22... He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

The legalism of the OT. Will he regret this law, maybe not, but she will.

8. Based on the previous questions ... can you explain why God is considered ultimately good?

No

9. Can you explain how something that is considered all knowing and all powerful decided that this were the best laws?

This is an example of Authoritarians claiming to have divine revelations.

10. Can you think of any more reasonable laws with more justifiable punishments than those God made in the laws mentioned above, even though you are not all powerful and ultimately good?

It's not hard, take a stab at it.

 

[Vinayaka]

Your questions address one version of theism. In most dharmic versions, there is no evil, so that pretty much eliminates us from answering any of the questions. It also only addresses people who believe in a very dualistic God. That also eliminates many of us from answering.

I think perhaps you've only ever been exposed to one religion, which would explain this line of questioning.

 

[Unguru]

Your questions address one version of theism. In most dharmic versions, there is no evil, so that pretty much eliminates us from answering any of the questions. It also only addresses people who believe in a very dualistic God. That also eliminates many of us from answering.

I think perhaps you've only ever been exposed to one religion, which would explain this line of questioning.

Yes, his post should have specified more that it was aimed towards Christians but I commend him anyway for trying to understand their theology.

 

[Nimos]

Unfortunately there is not enough room in a thread to discuss all of your many objections, and also I think that your questions are only applicable to a limited set of religious people and also a limited set within that limited set.

On RF we have Hindus, Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Muslims, Jews, Mainstream Protestants, 7th Day Adventists, JW's, Anglicans, LDS etc etc. Your points just do not coincide. You need to be more specific, do more research, find out who believes what.

Where you speak about the laws of God, I have to say you don't represent those well either. Its not reasonable to expect to receive an education in them in a debate, either.

I should have stated that it were aimed at the Christian God, I hope at least based on the explanation I gave, that this apply only to those that claim that he is ultimately good and all knowing, for those that do not see him as that, the questions are obviously not relevante as you say, that is my mistake. I would like to go through every religion in details, but that would require to much time, to figure out what exactly everyone believes and don't believe. So hopefully as others have done when answering is stating that certain things are not relevant for their view, which I find to be very reasonable.

With that said, I do think the questions quoting the bible are valid enough as that is how they are written in the bible. I think the laws are pretty straight forward written in the bible. So I don't think understanding them is problem, But the reason why God made them the way he did or thought they were needed in the form they are, is not easy to understand. And to me they contradict the claim that God is all good and know all. As I already stated in the beginning I have watched lots of debates which doesn't answer these questions and having read the bible, I find no answers there either. So I see nothing wrong in getting the opinion and reason from those that believe, as I assume they have a reason for it in the first place. I see nothing wrong with that, but if you have suggestions of who can answer the question why God is seen as ultimately good and all knowing, where do you suggest I seek such information?

Besides that, Im not really posting the questions to start a debate, merely interested in trying to figure out why it is the case.

Ideas of right/wrong, good/evil have varied in different times and in different cultures. The US Civil War was fought about whether or not slavery was good or evil. That tells me that people's opinions differ even when using the same religious base.

But to me we're also evolving to a more advanced view of how we should treat each other and the world we live on.

To me, God is beyond the common duality of good and evil which are products of the human ego. God to me is ultimate Truth beyond human-perceived duality.

To me doing "good" seeking rewards and avoiding "evil" from fear of punishment is not the ideal. I like how Rabia, a famous female sufi personage put it

O God! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell
If I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise.
But if I worship You for Your Own sake,
begrudge me not Your everlasting Beauty.
​

And as far as what people should do, if God were standing next to you, what would you feel comfortable doing and what would make you feel uncomfortable? That to me, is what we should or should not do.

I share your view for the most part in the first question, obviously not the God part . However im not really sure, if you say that a person could know right from wrong not knowing the difference between good and evil or not. Can you elaborate on that?

The second part of your answer, you could say were part of why I asked the questions. Because I do not think that a son that is stubborn should be punished with death or a women defending her husband should have her hand cut off for grabbing someones private parts. So Im honestly not sure what I would be comfortable doing if I stood next to God. The reason I ask the questions, is because I can't read God, if that makes sense? People claim he is ultimate good, yet as an atheist and reading what is written in the law, I simply fail to make the connections they are. So for Christians or those that believe in God this might not be an issue and can still accept that God is all good, but for atheist it really ain't.

I know from watching debates that there can be quite and hostile tone between atheist and believers. But I don't think I wrong in assuming that a lot of people reading the questions, think im just out to create problems or im yet another atheist etc. But from a lot of atheists point of view, questions like these is important, its probably not that easy for a person that is religious to know what it feels like being an atheist and hearing the claim that God is all good and then reading stuff like the law, and then when you ask reasonable questions about it without changing any of the text, that you can either not get an answer or people assume that you are just having a go at them. Probably not much different than it is for a believer when atheist have a go or mock their believes, because we don't understand what it means to believe in a God.

The first sin was the failure to trust good; God, and instead trust evil; the serpent.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was an outward manifestation of a sin they committed before they carried out the action of eating from that tree. There was the presence of good and evil before the act was committed. Adam and Eve should have trusted God's command, and allowance.

Evil is the canker sore in an otherwise once perfect act of creation. The angels were the first creation, and 1/3 turned on God. Evil did not exist ever before. It was invented by an angel. For whatever reason God did not account for this at first. Then God kicked out those evil angels and furthered his plans by creating The Garden of Eden to prove and test His creations.

I am not a Bible believer, but i suspect God made a plan to defeat evil once and for all so that evil would never ever have the possibility of ever existing again. We of earth are living out God's plan to end evil forever. The Bible makes the claim that one day you will never ever able see evil ever again somewhere in the kjv.

So heaven and earth would be the battleground to end evil, and perhaps this is the only way it can be accomplished. Through God's son at the cross, and through the believers faith. The kjv says that believers are more than conquerors through Jesus.

I am interested in The Bible because im trying to find a consistent literary theme that makes the story coherent. But you bring up The Torah and Deuteronomy and i cannot justify many of those laws.

I have to say there is a lot of new information in this post that I weren't aware of

Just so I understand you correct.

What you are talking about here is blind faith right? According to the bible Adam and Eve were created with free will, doesn't that conflict with trusting God? Also if Eve didn't have the ability to know the difference between good and evil, what reason would she have not to trust the serpent? Can you elaborate on that or did I misunderstand you completely?

All the stuff about evil not existing before and that it were invented by an angel. etc. and you saying that you are not a bible believer, is that from another religion than Christianity or where did you get all those details from, just wondering as I don't recall having read any of that in the bible, but might have sweat it out?

I'm not going to attempt to answer all your questions. My knowledge of God is my own personal feeling that life can not be an accident of Evolution. I'm not saying that Evolution is false; only that an Intelligence learned to use evolution to make what He (genderless) wanted.

I also feel that those who believe in God should become better people because of that knowledge. Sadly, I and most others have not done that. The failure of the religions does not mean that God does not exist, only that we have not done a good job in interpreting his will and following it.

Just to be sure, you don't see yourself as a bible believer either, you just hold your own view of a God, is that correct?

I completely agree with you, when you say that the failure of a religion have nothing to do with whether a God exist or not. If that were the case, Im pretty sure that you could find atheists out there, that would create a lots of religions based on current ones and make sure they failed

I recommend you break this thread up into series of threads with some space of time in-between (maybe just a day). I think you will greatly increase participation that way.

I probably could, but I also wanted to give people enough details and content to think about it. It doesn't matter if people only have answers to some of them. I mean it should or at least I hope its obvious that these are all about God being ultimately Good and all knowing. So its fine if they want to use other examples as well, as long as they keep my questions in mind also.

Your questions address one version of theism. In most dharmic versions, there is no evil, so that pretty much eliminates us from answering any of the questions. It also only addresses people who believe in a very dualistic God. That also eliminates many of us from answering.

I think perhaps you've only ever been exposed to one religion, which would explain this line of questioning.

As stated earlier, I should have pointed out that it were aimed at those that believe that God is ultimately Good and all knowing. However other are equally welcome to give their view. I mean, Im an atheist and I have tried to find the answers and obviously have my own opinion based on the lack of explanation that I have been able to find, which is why I thought I would ask here. So guess others can share their view as well, if they think they have something relevant to add.

I don't think Christians that believe in God think these questions are easy to answer, but its not easy for an atheist either to just accept that God, Gods exist and they are all powerful etc. Without being able to get answers to a lot of questions we might have, because they might not be seen as important to believers.

 

[Firemorphic]

@Nimos It is an interesting batch of questions (obviously N/A to me though), have you considered getting a Jewish perspective on it? as they're the other major religion that believes in the Torah (seeing as all your questions quote books from the Torah).

Peace bro, hope you keep exploring

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I will attempt to start answering #3, regarding satan...(just think on this: do mothers have thieves? Or children? But growing older, can't those children choose to be thieves, by breaking into a house, etc? They thus make themselves thieves, right?):

Did God Create the Devil? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Nimos]

@Nimos It is an interesting batch of questions (obviously N/A to me though), have you considered getting a Jewish perspective on it? as they're the other major religion that believes in the Torah (seeing as all your questions quote books from the Torah).

Peace bro, hope you keep exploring

Im basically interested in anyone opinion for which the questions are relevant So yeah a Jewish view would be more than welcome.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

BTW, welcome!
FYI, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses....as long as you're genuine and sincere , you can ask any question you want.

 

[osgart]

JUDE 1:6 KJV "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in..."

Its said that God created the angels perfectly. Yet because of the father of lies, many angels rebelled against God leaving their first nature.

EZEKIEL 28:15 KJV "Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Again God created perfectly!

So Adam and Eve were not the first creation. Yet God created perfection in every instance of creation.

 

[Nimos]

I will attempt to start answering #3, regarding satan...(just think on this: do mothers have thieves? Or children? But growing older, can't those children choose to be thieves, by breaking into a house, etc? They thus make themselves thieves, right?):

Did God Create the Devil? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

I read the link as well to fully understand what you are saying, as I don't want to twist your words. These are quotes from that page, in a summary form:

"However, like the rest of Jehovah’s intelligent creatures, the angel who became Satan had the freedom to choose between right and wrong. By choosing a course in opposition to God and inciting the first human couple to join him, he made himself Satan"

"He evidently craved worship that belonged only to God and saw the possibility of bringing humans under his rule instead of that of Jehovah."

I assume what is meant with this is that Satan started wanting the other angels to worship him and after humans were created decided that he wanted them as well or did evil come into the world with humans? or how does it work with the tree of knowledge?

So Satan created evil through free will?

Im not really sure, I fully understand what you mean, can you correct me where im wrong?

 

[Nimos]

BTW, welcome!
FYI, I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses....as long as you're genuine and sincere , you can ask any question you want.

The 10 questions at the top

I know JW quite well, have been having a conversation with two of your witnesses for approx. 3 years now. Very interesting and friendly. So im pretty sincere

 

[Jollybear]

1. Is it possible for a person to distinguish between right and wrong, without knowing the difference between good and evil?

a. If the answer is no: How do you justify that God punishes Adam and Eve when they don't know the difference between them? And what reason would Eve have to assume that the snake is trying to deceive her?

b. If the answer is yes: Can you give an example of it?

Im not gonna tackle all of your questions, simply because it take too much time.

So, ill tackle this one.

Adam and eve understood what God told them and what the serpent told them. They had a choice on who to trust was telling them the truth about the fruit. They choice to trust the wrong source. The serpent lied to them.

Now, why did God still let them die from the fruit? They did not know who was telling the truth?

Well, heres why, God has to design and show us that danger is danger no matter if your ignorant of it or not.

Now, keep in mind, did God abandon them? No, he didnt. But the fruit still did its poison in there body.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

The first sin was the failure to trust good; God, and instead trust evil; the serpent.

Actually, how I read that particular text, was that Satan himself committed the very first sin against God, but his desires to be more 'equal' to God.....and then started a rebellion when he was rebuked by God.
The "rest" of the story, as they say, is "history".

 

[Nimos]

Im not gonna tackle all of your questions, simply because it take too much time.

So, ill tackle this one.

Adam and eve understood what God told them and what the serpent told them. They had a choice on who to trust was telling them the truth about the fruit. They choice to trust the wrong source. The serpent lied to them.

Now, why did God still let them die from the fruit? They did not know who was telling the truth?

Well, heres why, God has to design and show us that danger is danger no matter if your ignorant of it or not.

Now, keep in mind, did God abandon them? No, he didnt. But the fruit still did its poison in there body.

But wouldn't you agree that simply because a person understand something, it doesn't necessarily make them capable of making a right choice about it?

I want to explain how I see it, obviously correct me if you disagree.

But Adam and Eve lived in Garden of Eden with God wandering round talking with them on a regular basis, at least that is the impression I get when I read the story. So I wouldn't consider it wrong to assume that up until the meeting with the serpent, they have never experience anything but perfection and good without even knowing it, as they are in the presence of God and the story doesn't mention that they are in any way unhappy there.

So when Eve meet the serpent, why would she assume that it weren't like the rest of the stuff that she had experienced? Unable to see the difference between good and evil, would actually, as I see it, mean that there is no way for her to see that God is better than Satan and therefore have no reason to assume that he is trying to do something evil. So even though Adam and Eve understand what God and Satan is saying, doesn't make them capable of making a right choice.

If God wanted to show them that danger is danger regardless of them being ignorant, why place them in Garden of Eden, where there is no danger to learn from and when he then decide to teach them a lesson, he let Satan have a go at them and when they then obviously fail, he decide to punish them and all humans forever.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so again if anything of what I wrote here you think is way off, please clarify what. But I have to say that I still fail to make the connection between God choices and justifications here and how it would be considered good?