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Featured Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    No, there does not need to be a deeper reason FOR ME; what is written should be the reason, but that depends upon what you are reading and how you interpret what is written.

    Also, sometimes one needs to read between the lines. Where in the Bible does it explicitly say that God wants everyone to believe in Him?

    Besides, I was asking atheists and agnostics what they think about the hypothetical god, whether they think that god would want everyone to believe in him. I assumed they would not derive their answer from the Bible since they do not believe in the Bible.
    Of course, it is logically possible for everyone to believe in God and of course if that was God’s objective, to get 100% of people in the world to believe He exists, God would know exactly how to accomplish that objective, since God is omniscient.
    You make a good point – why not?
    You make another good point. We believers do not have the answers to these questions. I was not suggesting that nonbelievers have the answers either, I was just asking them to use their imagination.

    Some atheists insist that God could show up because God is omnipotent, but they have been unable to tell me how God could do that. I was just trying to find out if any atheists here have any ideas. :)
     
  2. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    It's not fantastical for the flea to think that their MIGHT be a dog, but if the flea has no verifiable evidence that shows that there IS a dog, it would be premature for the flea to conclude that the dog IS real. I'm open to the possibility that their MIGHT be a god. However, unless or until I have verifiable evidence that there actually IS a god, it would be ridiculous for me to conclude that there IS. Otherwise I would have to accept EVERY fantastical claim without evidence as being true as well.
     
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  3. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    Thank you! That's all I wanted to hear. Provided you mean what you say.
     
  4. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Thanks for sharing.

    First, in case you are not aware, I am not a theist.

    Secondly, I reject dualism. I do not support the idea of a soul that inhabits or animates our bodies and survives after death. Likewise, I reject materialism. Experience has shown me there is more to existence than matter. My views are quite different than either of these doctrines.

    I'm also quite familiar with the work of Andrew Newberg with regard to how religious and enlightenment experiences impact the brain.

    Was there a specific misconception you thought might be relevant to this discussion?
     
    #204 SalixIncendium, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  5. ERLOS

    ERLOS God Feeds the Ravens

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    I mean it's going to be quite difficult for the flea from the flea dimension, to prove the dog? But it would be a silly little flea to assert itself as the most intelligent species in the entire universe, based on its flea knowledge? Lol?
     
  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    You seem to be operating under the impression that I'm suggesting that the brain and consciousness are mutually exclusive.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Chinese whispers
    (redirected from Broken telephone)

    1. (Games, other than specified) a game in which a message is passed on, in a whisper, by each of a number of people, so that the final version of the message is often radically changed from the original

    2. any situation where information is passed on in turn by a number of people, often becoming distorted in the process
    https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Broken+telephone

    I understand that the Bible was a broken telephone scenario, but this is a new day in history. No longer do we have to rely upon what has been passed down by oral tradition, thereby radically changed or distorted in the process, thus unreliable as a source of information about God.

    Why would Messenger have to interfere with clear communication? Why couldn’t they write something down in their own pen for everyone to read and interpret? Even if we got the exact same information directly, we would still have to interpret what it means.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    That would be true unless God chose the Messenger, gave Him the authority to speak on His behalf, and conferred infallibility upon the Messenger.
    I am not sure what place arrogance has. Why is it ever necessary to be arrogant? It is sometimes necessary to stand up for what we think or believe but we do not ever have to insist we are right and everyone else is wrong. Arrogance is an attitude of superiority.
    Admitting a lack of knowledge and saying you don’t know something you don’t know is what I consider humility. That is why I said I considered you humble. That does not mean you are never arrogant. I was just going on what you said in a post. :)

    I think we all like to be right because deep down we all want to know the truth, whether it is about God or anything else. We all just go about finding the truth differently.
     
  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    From your posts #131, #135, #168, #187 and #188 its an easy assumption to make, if that assumption is wrong then i apologies .

    I was providing papers, easily available on the internet that you told SJ and me didnt exist.

    And of course pointing out anomalies and hypocrisy.
     
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  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    What you say makes sense, but what reason do you have to think that God has not revealed Himself to everyone?

    But even if God did reveal Himself to everyone, what reason do you have to think that everyone would believe in Him?

    What reason do you have to think that God would reveal all of Himself? There might be a reason why God reveals only part of Himself and keeps the rest hidden. ;)
    Do you tell everyone everything about yourself?
     
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    No need to apologize. In going back and reading those posts, I see that it's not unreasonable for one to have drawn such a conclusion.

    I never claimed papers researching the possibility that consciousness' origination in the brain didn't exist. I stated that there were only hypotheses...that there existed no conclusive evidence or scientific theories that would support that consciousness originated in the brain.

    Your opinion, of course.
     
  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    They will not find this.

    There is no doubt Mind is not part of the body.

    Personally it is a bounty to be given this life to understand what it is to be a spiritual being, but the material constantly draws us away being what we really are and in the end we would love to be free of it, which again is a material thought ;)

    Peace be upon all.
     
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  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Cheers

    Quote
    "If no internet article can be cited to support an idea, "
    Quote
    "Your opinion that both are directly associated with the brain and mental ability is noted."

    Again assumption on my part based on your posts

    And i provided 3 of many recent papers that support consciousness originating in the brain

    What else would you call it if you pulled someone up and criticized them for an action then did exactly the same thing yourself?
     
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Can you show me a mind without a body?
     
  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    The evidence is in religious scriptures, but we believers know that you atheists do not accept this as evidence; you only accept science as evidence... Too bad that science does not have the answers that religion has.

    The source of thought is the soul which interacts with the brain while we are living in a physical body and allows us to think. The soul is not the mind; it is beyond the mind and beyond any human understanding. It is one of the signs of God, a mystery among His mysteries.

    “Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159

    After the physical body dies, the soul takes on another form made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual world, and the thought process continues for eternity.

    “And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156
     
  16. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Ah, but I didn't...

    ERLOS did not claim to have any evidence, therefore it was uncalled for to demand that he provide citations.

    SZ claimed to have "rather strong evidence." I simply asked him to share it.
     
  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I honestly have no idea of what you mean to say with that.

    Nothing too specific.

    I am not very interested in this kind of discussion; the concepts are far too slippery for my taste, and the practical significance is not at all clear. I find the anthropological implications of the existence of so much interest far more interesting than the subject itself.

    I just find that text useful in bringing some lucidity to a subject matter that often starves for that.
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I have no need at all to prove this :)

    Look within your own self and you will find the Mind that we are all created of, or do not do this. That is the choice of this life.

    Peace to you ChristineM and all
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    I have discussed this at length with atheists on other forums. We determined that the mind has been studied by science so scientists know the mind exists. They just do not know how it operates and they never will because it operates in conjunction with the soul, which cannot be studied by science.

    I have a lot more written on this subject, but I just stumbled upon the following that was part of a dialogue:

    The mind also exists; it is part of the brain. The mind is associated with the brain while we are alive in a physical body. The soul expresses itself through the mind while we are alive in a physical body but the soul is not physical, it is immaterial. The soul animates the physical body while we are alive on earth, but it is a mystery no mind can ever hope to unravel, it is a sign of God.
     
  20. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Your opinion of course
     
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