Questions about worshipping Vishnu

[Sirona]

Namaste,

I’m considering to buy a Vishnu murti. I’d like to know about some traditions that worship Vishnu. Who is considered the supreme god according to these traditions, Vishnu or Krishna? Which mantras are suitable for Vishnu? Do I need to worship Lakshmi with him?

Thanks for your replies.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Namaste!

I’d like to know about some traditions that worship Vishnu.

In the Gaudiya Vaishnava, Nimbarka and Vallabhacharya traditions, devotees worship Krishna as the One Supreme form of God, and source of all avatars, Svayam Bhagavan, in contrast to the belief of the devotees of the Sri Sampradaya who worship Narayana as Supreme. The Dvaita tradition of Madhvacharya considers Vishnu as the Supreme Personality.

The Four Sampradayas

Which mantras are suitable for Vishnu?

Chanting Hare Krishna

Do I need to worship Lakshmi with him?

Yes, Generally Both are worshipped together. Lakshmi (Radharani in Gaudiya Tradition) is considered as the Chief Associate and devotee of Lord Vishnu (Krishna), and topmost of all Goddesses.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

I’m considering to buy a Vishnu murti.

At the cost of sounding orthodox, are you aware of prANaprathiSTha procedure? Perhaps you are already aware of this, in hindu-dharma the murti is not God, but God is 'in' the murti.

Who is considered the supreme god according to these traditions, Vishnu or Krishna?

As @Acintya_Ash suggested above, most philosophical schools hold Narayana/Vishnu/Krishna as one and the same. Krishna with His divine leelas is easier to contemplate upon.

Which mantras are suitable for Vishnu?

The Hare Krishna mantra, gopeejanavallabha-charaNou-sharaNam-prapadhye, shree-krishnaH-sharaNam-mama are some of the best mantras that can be practiced by anyone, anytime, and anyplace without the necessity of guru-dIksha, and knowledge of rishi-chhandas-devataa.

Do I need to worship Lakshmi with him?

Narayana can be worshipped with the contemplation that Lakshmi always resides in His heart.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Chakra]

Namaste,

I’m considering to buy a Vishnu murti. I’d like to know about some traditions that worship Vishnu.

There are many, but just look at the link Achintya-Ash has posted.

Who is considered the supreme god according to these traditions, Vishnu or Krishna?

While this is a stark difference between the sampradayas of the North and the South, this is not a topic of severe debate among them. In either way, they are both Lord Sri Hari, Vaikuntha-pati, and the Purusha praised in the Vedas, so there is really no difference between them. It's not like we are comparing Sriman Narayana and Lord Shiva.

Which mantras are suitable for Vishnu?

Many Vishnu mantras require initiation, so there are some mantras that you should stay away from (The Namo Narayana Mantra -add a pranava before the Namo)

Do I need to worship Lakshmi with him?

In Sri Vaishnavism, this is a must.

The reason for this is that Bhagavan is angry at us because he is seeing all of our sins. He has given us his Shastra with the do's (the punyas) and the don'ts (the papams), so we cannot blame him for being angry at us (although some Hindus here like to say that there are no "do's or don'ts in Hinduism).

This is why we resort to Mother Lakshmi first. She is an arbitrator. After we have confessed our sins to her and have promised to not repeat them, she removes our sins and then talks to Bhagavan to award us Moksham. This is why Sri Vaishnavas surrender to Mother Lakshmi first and then to Sriman Narayana (our pUrvachAryas have said that the holy name of Vishnu must always be preceded with the holier name of Lakshmi).

Regards

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

Most Vishnu mantras require initiation, so there are some mantras that you should stay away from now (The Namo Narayana Mantra -add a pranava before the Namo)

But didn't Sri Ramanuja shout out loud the Narayanaashtakshara as soon as he learned from his guru that one could attain moksha despite his guru's injunction not to reveal it publicly which would result in Sri Ramanuja attaining hell?

This is why Sri Vaishnavas surrender to Mother Lakshmi first and then to Sriman Narayana (our pUrvachAryas have said that the holy name of Vishnu must always be preceded with the holier name of Lakshmi).

Would that make Lakshmi more benevolent than Narayana? Also, how is it (surrendering to Lakshmi before Narayana) explained considering Krishna's emphasis on surrendering solely to Him [thro' terms like ananyaashchintayanto, mAmeva, etc]

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Chakra]

But didn't Sri Ramanuja shout out loud the Narayanaashtakshara as soon as he learned from his guru that one could attain moksha despite his guru's injunction not to reveal it publicly which would result in Sri Ramanuja attaining hell?

This he did. However, after researching, I found that all the Sri Vaishnava sites say that one should not utter pranava unless they are initiated. It is just that you can't say pranava without being initiated. You can say Namo Narayana. I'm not sure exactly, since I am not initiated.

Would that make Lakshmi more benevolent than Narayana?

AFAIK, Sriman Narayana is more compassionate with Lakshmi Maa around. When Sri Rama was with Sita Maa, he didn't fight, but he protected and forgave. When Sri Rama was not with Sita Maa, then he destroyed the Asuras.
It is also not possible to separate the two.

Also, how is it (surrendering to Lakshmi before Narayana) explained considering Krishna's emphasis on surrendering solely to Him [thro' terms like ananyaashchintayanto, mAmeva, etc]

AFAIK, Sri Vaishnavas worship the truth as solely Narayana, and not some combination of Lakshmi and Narayana. We do not believe that Lakshmi is higher than or equal to Narayana.

So this surrender is similar to how we surrender to our Guru or other devatas to reach Hari. I've heard that Madhvas worship other devas in order to achieve blessings to achieve Lord Sri Hari. I believe that this is the same concept. Correct me if I am wrong.

Mother Lakshmi helps us surrender to Lord Narayana, because the Jivatma does not want to get closer to Paramatma, and Paramatma does not want to forgive our papams.

 

[Chakra]

Actually, for the mantra question, I think that you are free to chant it I suppose, but the best effects come when you are initiated (since then you have a connection with Sri Ramanuja and Sriman Narayana).

Another thing is that although Sri Ramanuja chanted the mantra out loud, he still initiated people into the mantra.

 

[punkdbass]

Actually, for the mantra question, I think that you are free to chant it I suppose, but the best effects come when you are initiated (since then you have a connection with Sri Ramanuja and Sriman Narayana).

Another thing is that although Sri Ramanuja chanted the mantra out loud, he still initiated people into the mantra.

Do you think one should be initiated to use any of the following mantras:

-Om Krishnaya namah (found on some Hindu website long time ago, I don't think this mantra is that widely used)
-Om Vishnave namah (found on Vishnu wiki page)
-The Hari Krishna mantra (recently I have been trying out this mantra)

 

[Chakra]

Do you think one should be initiated to use any of the following mantras:

-Om Krishnaya namah (found on some Hindu website long time ago, I don't think this mantra is that widely used)
-Om Vishnave namah (found on Vishnu wiki page)
-The Hari Krishna mantra (recently I have been trying out this mantra)

Those three mantras are not initiated during Pancha-samskara, so at least in Sri Vaishnavism, you don't need Pancha-samskara to chant those. I myself am not an authority though, I am just stating my opinion.

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Do you think one should be initiated to use any of the following mantras:

There are no hard and fast rules for chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. One can chant anywhere, anytime, in any situation. In fact, the Caitanya-caritamrta (Antya-lila, 20.18) describes that chanting the holy name at any time or place, even during sleep or while eating, brings one all perfection. However, there are different stages of chanting. The first stage of chanting is the offensive stage, the second stage is offenseless chanting, and then is the third or pure stage of chanting, which is when the chanting becomes extremely powerful.

As the Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-lila, 15.108) says, one does not have to take initiation, but only has to chant the holy names. Thus, deliverance is available to even the lowest of people.


Chanting Hare Krishna

 

[Andal]

As others have noted- Vishnu and Krishna are one in the same. The only difference I see is in mood. Worship of Krishna is a different mood from worship of Vishnu. At least in my subjective experience. Both are wonderful expressions of love of Sri Hari.

In terms of mantras, I get the sense that it depends on who you ask. While initiation into mantra is preferable as it empowers the practice, the Tirumantra (as far as I was taught) can be chanted by anyone. Sri Ramanuja made this clear when he shouted it from the wall of the temple With that said always trust the advice of your guru and lineage.

The Sri Vishnusahasranamam is open to all to chant as well as the Mahamantra

Aside from mantras there are many beautiful slokas and bhajans that can be chanted or sung such as Achyutahstakam, Sri Vishnu Chalisa, and the poems of Vaishnava Alvars.

In addition you can do puja. This can be a simple as offering single leaf or flame or an intricate aarti.

The best worship though it to develop love of and surrender to Sriman Narayana.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Chakra]

Wow, I did not know that non-initiated people were allowed to chant Tirumantra... I guess I need to research this further.

 

[Andal]

Namaskar Axlyz,

I'm an uninitiated student/ well wisher of Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya. He teaches Tirumantra to all. However he does seem to make the distinction between initiated and uninitiated. I cannot speak more on this distinction though, being uninitiated I don't want to misrepresent his teachings.

Of course others may have different views and I am in no way an expert.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Aupmanyav]

At the cost of sounding orthodox, are you aware of prANaprathiSTha procedure? Perhaps you are already aware of this, in hindu-dharma the murti is not God, but God is 'in' the murti.

I was given to understand that murtis at home do not require pranapratishtha. Kindly clarify.

It's not like we are comparing Sriman Narayana and Lord Shiva.

And why should one do that?

This is why Sri Vaishnavas surrender to Mother Lakshmi first and then to Sriman Narayana (our pUrvachAryas have said that the holy name of Vishnu must always be preceded with the holier name of Lakshmi).

Right. Radha first and then Krishna, Sita first and then Rama.

 

[Chakra]

And why should one do that?.

Why should one do what?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Wow, I did not know that non-initiated people were allowed to chant Tirumantra... I guess I need to research this further.

Axlyz, it is your God (and mine too). He is made of love and peity. Why do you worry about so many regulations? What can harm anyone if he is chanting the name of his God? Even Yama could not take away Markandeya.

 

[Chakra]

Why do you worry about so many regulations?

Because I am afraid of doing something wrong that will disturb Bhagavan. Until I get initiated and actually learn the practices, I will always be wary of what I am doing.

What can harm anyone if he is chanting the name of his God?

That's not what I am saying. Some practices are supposed to be done by initiated people, so I believed that the chanting of Tirumantram (since it has pranava) was only for initiated people. Some mantras require knowledge from a Guru. This is a fact.

But like I said, I could be wrong.

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

So this surrender is similar to how we surrender to our Guru or other devatas to reach Hari. I've heard that Madhvas worship other devas in order to achieve blessings to achieve Lord Sri Hari. I believe that this is the same concept. Correct me if I am wrong.

In tattvavada, worship of other devatas are thro' antaryami Narayana roopa, for e.g., Rudra would be worshipped as pratibimba of SankarshaNa, so the worship is at all times that of only Narayana. Even the guru is worshipped in this way. So as i understand, perhaps Lakshmi is taken as the guru. Would that be right? And is there an antaryami anusandhana for Lakshmi?

AFAIK, Sriman Narayana is more compassionate with Lakshmi Maa around. When Sri Rama was with Sita Maa, he didn't fight, but he protected and forgave. When Sri Rama was not with Sita Maa, then he destroyed the Asuras.

This is interesting, with SatybhAma around, He killed naraka - who was son of satyabhAma (in her mula-roopa as bhU).

But i think i get the point, it is more of an appeal to motherly love, just as we would in this world.

I was given to understand that murtis at home do not require pranapratishtha. Kindly clarify.

Excepting salagramas, all murtis require prANapratiShTa - the only exception being those that are smaller than one's thumb (which is perhaps for convenience). Still, before the murti is placed for worship, irrespective of size, purificatory procedure has to be done. The shastras lay lot of emphasis on this, because their underlying intention was clear - not to confuse the idol with god, so if it is not, then what is one worshipping? A murti without prANaprathiSTha is just a decorative piece of metal/stone. With prANaprathiSTha the murti is prepared for invocation (AvAhana) with the infusion of subtle energies thro' mantras.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Aupmanyav]

Thanks, Tattvaprahava. The deities in my home are quite casual about things.

@ Axlyz, my favorite bhajan at one time (and people asked me to sing it):
"Sur ki gati main kya janu, sirf bhajan karna janu."
(What do I know about singing, I only know to sing praises of the Lord)

Remember Rama ate berries tasted by shabari, and Krishna went one step ahead. Ate banana peels offered by Uddhava's wife or Sudama's rice.

Why should one do what?

Comparing Sriman Narayana and Lord Shiva. They are both incomparable (i.e., if they are not one and the same).

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

The deities in my home are quite casual about things.

Of course, prANapratiShTa is for the sAdhaka, what use will Bhagavan have from it. The shastras don't mandate the worship of murtis, but only provides the right way, should one choose to follow it. In the dharma there is a science underlying every ritual, when that science is forgotten or its relevance is considered lightly, as is the fashion nowadays, what remains is superstition and dry rituals. This has also given rise to popular misconception that hindu-dharma advocates idolatry.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।