Questions about Christianity and Mormonism

[John D. Brey]

We're all saved or the plan is incomplete and worthless... but in the meantime, Cult vs Christian ...

Some persons might say the distinction between cult, and Christian, is in the size of the beehive of the beholder. Or was it hornets the chosen ones used to horn in on the land of their cultists neighbors (Exodus 23:28). I find it ironic that that tact, or attack, drove out the Hivites, who surely had beehives of some size themselves?

Are you a Hivite, or someone chosen to drive out Hivites and other busy little bee cultists?

I feel I should warn you I'm a WASP.



John

 

[Katzpur]

You know something, @John D. Brey, you are one of the few posters on this forum who both claim to be "Christian" and whose interaction with others substantiates that claim. Thank you for for walking the walk and not just talking the talk.

 

[idea]

Some persons might say the distinction between cult, and Christian, is in the size of the beehive of the beholder. Or was it hornets the chosen ones used to horn in on the land of their cultists neighbors (Exodus 23:28). I find it ironic that that tact, or attack, drove out the Hivites, who surely had beehives of some size themselves?

Are you a Hivite, or someone chosen to drive out Hivites and other busy little bee cultists?

I feel I should warn you I'm a WASP.



John

I'm SBNA - spiritual but not affiliated. I think there are good things, and also really dangerous things in every religious group. My hope for the future is for everyone to take a more scientific approach, get rid of superstitions, apply critical thinking, and create healthy communities for everyone. I see patriarchal authoritarian communities like the Mormons as being very oppressive and dangerous. The idea that some people are "priests" or "high priests" and prophets, not to be questioned, have seen children abused in the Mormon church etc. It is like a dictatorship, or worse. I know brain washing is real - have experienced it myself, and understand how difficult it is to escape cults like the Mormon church as they take possession of your family, and are organized to manipulate all of the connections and relationships you have. Any church that gets in your family business, pushes themselves between you and God, has a foundation in racism, sexism, homophobic, and the rest - and will not move past harmful superstitious beliefs, claim they alone are being led by God - dangerous groups. It is good to see many leaving these oppressive belief systems, and I hope in the future everyone will find peace and healthy connections with their communities.

 

[idea]

You know something, @John D. Brey, you are one of the few posters on this forum who both claim to be "Christian" and whose interaction with others substantiates that claim. Thank you for for walking the walk and not just talking the talk.

Katz, if you want to move the goal posts and avoid the pedophile racist foundation of the Warrens Jeff... I mean Joseph Smith church, I was trapped in that group too for too long.

I now feel obligated to warn others of the lies and manipulation techniques used in the Mormon church. I do not know if you even realize what your post looks like - to me it looks like:

Psychological manipulation - Wikipedia

According to Braiker[edit]
Harriet B. Braiker (2004) identified the following ways that manipulators control their victims:[3]

• Positive reinforcement: includes praise, superficial charm,

Those who do not understand what grooming is, I will warn you, the Mormon church is expert at it. It is not the spirit, it is emotional manipulation - many different groups use it. It is not from God.

Are you in a Religious Cult? Take the test.
Cult Test | Cult Escape | Are you In A Religious Cult?
↑ yes, Mormons are a "cult".

 

[Katzpur]

Some persons might say the distinction between cult, and Christian, is in the size of the beehive of the beholder. Or was it hornets the chosen ones used to horn in on the land of their cultists neighbors (Exodus 23:28). I find it ironic that that tact, or attack, drove out the Hivites, who surely had beehives of some size themselves?

Are you a Hivite, or someone chosen to drive out Hivites and other busy little bee cultists?

I feel I should warn you I'm a WASP.



John

Very astute! Oh, and Happy Birthday!

 

[Watchmen]

Actual "Mormon" here clarifying actual beliefs:

- God the Spirit is a spirit without a body.
- God the Son is a spirit in a body. Today that's a glorified resurrected body, during His mortal ministry it was a mortal one, and he obviously didn't have a body before being born of Mary. He was/is divine and unchanging during all of this time.
- We are each to worship God with our spirits and in truthfulness (John 4:23-24).


The Bible alone does not specify if the God the Father is like God the Spirit (spirit with no body) or God the Son (spirit with a body). Traditional Christians go with the first option, myself and other member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints go with the second.

You don’t need to be an “actual” Mormon to know “actual” beliefs.

 

[idea]

Also @John D. Brey

If I remember correctly the one big difference is that Mormons believe God the Father has a human physical body and that he was once a man and he then progressed to godhood.

In Bible (OT and NT) we read "God is spirit", "God is not a man", "I the LORD do not change."

Actual ex-mormon here who was fully in the cult for 20+ years. The other big difference is Mormons believe their leaders are *actual* apostles and prophets who currently *actually* talk to God, and tell church members what God is currently actually saying... ie... to question their prophet is equivalent to questioning God.

So when an apostle introces himself as "the ancient of days" and then directs followers to pick up a gun and aim at the LGBTQ crowd, a faithful member will do it. (See recent unpleasantness at the polygamous-founded BYU school)‘Mormon Land’: How Jeffrey Holland’s talk on LGBTQ issues could have consequences for BYU

 

[Watchmen]

Actual ex-mormon here who was fully in the cult for 20+ years. The other big difference is Mormons believe their leaders are *actual* apostles and prophets who currently *actually* talk to God, and tell church members what God is currently actually saying... ie... to question their prophet is equivalent to questioning God.

So when an apostle introces himself as "the ancient of days" and then directs followers to pick up a gun and aim at the LGBTQ crowd, a faithful member will do it. (See recent unpleasantness at the polygamous-founded BYU school)‘Mormon Land’: How Jeffrey Holland’s talk on LGBTQ issues could have consequences for BYU

Did Holland actually say pick up a gun and aim it at the LGBTQ crowd?

 

[1213]

...

1. According to non-Mormon Christianity are the varous Mormon books/writings, shown below, considered authorative Christian scripture?
   • If not, what makes them not so?
   • If not, would non-Mormons benefit froom reading and learning from them?

I have not read the books, however, in Biblical point of view a Christian is a disciple of Jesus. A disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the teachings of Jesus. This way, I would call Christian teachings that are from Jesus.

in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

People like Paul or Joseph Smith may have good things, but still, for a Christian, the loyalty is for Jesus. The others may help to understand some things better, but they are still only supporting material, not the core material. And I would read other writings in the light of what Jesus says in the Bible.

 

[Jane.Doe]

I have not read the books, however, in Biblical point of view a Christian is a disciple of Jesus. A disciple of Jesus is a person who remains in the teachings of Jesus. This way, I would call Christian teachings that are from Jesus.

in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians.
Acts 11:26

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

People like Paul or Joseph Smith may have good things, but still, for a Christian, the loyalty is for Jesus. The others may help to understand some things better, but they are still only supporting material, not the core material. And I would read other writings in the light of what Jesus says in the Bible.

Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed “Mormon”), I am first and foremost a disciple of Christ. He is my Lord and King. No one else remotely plays that role or that importance, including Jospeh Smith. Honestly I actually get annoyed about of much when chatting with folks in other churches, how much they want to talk about Joseph Smith instead of Christ & faith in Him.

 

[Watchmen]

Speaking as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (nicknamed “Mormon”), I am first and foremost a disciple of Christ. He is my Lord and King. No one else remotely plays that role or that importance, including Jospeh Smith. Honestly I actually get annoyed about of much when chatting with folks in other churches, how much they want to talk about Joseph Smith instead of Christ & faith in Him.

But what happens when your view of Christ turns out to be radically different from mainstream Christianity?

 

[rational experiences]

Science is involved in Biblical idealism as the themes involve aspects and concepts in Creation.

And it can only be discussed by humans who are only human and human consciousness by living on Planet Earth.

Why Earth was said to be their first and only God O one God. As science depicts the rationale a human as consciousness is only consciously supported by the planets presence plus its heavens.

CH is a science term of the gas spirits owned by stone that arose out of the planets body.

So we were taught humanity the living owned the support of consciousness by the Christ state so that your concepts of science would never conclude that you owned any other term of conscious idealism.

Science also states by determined historic human choices....conscious reasoning to study human genetics and ancient time bodies found by the status of the ology.

Geology and archaeology.

To define once human DNA Genesis genetics was the exact same life human body. And two of...two humans owned human life continuance as the balances.

Without any ability to argue as both the planetary advice and also human science advice verified that status.

So if life body and blood and bone and cell and consciousness was changed it was stated to be by a God act and also a science cause. And was described.

Mind and body both affected by the heavenly feed back. So we placated that the Father in the Heavens a non sexual being lost DNA. And he was the one advice an imaged memory that was non sexual and advised us all.

To then witness various human belief systems based on an idealised heavenly changed feed back of causes...voices, images and new ideas.

A Muslim belief for example discusses the act of human sex which is only biological. You have to own a human matured bio body chemically to own the ability for human sex and human life partnerships and human babies.

Yet claim that when they die they will be having sex in the heavenly spirit.

So you would wonder why the teaching discussed human virginity and also the life sacrificed to not be of sexual orientation as man advice to self.

Then you begin to review human beliefs and practices of one man with multi wives. And wonder how that circumstance came about to be believed in....when humans spiritual life and balances was a mutual one to one body condition.

To realise that hearing of voice and visions and images has been caused to be realised by many humans for a very long time due to atmospheric conditions. Those conditions record both human voice and image and can transmit both from one side of the world to the other. Humans can even travel into outer of space, be recorded and seen back on Earth.

Machine conditions the introduced human science man concept the realisation.

Then you should begin to realise that the human conscious psyche was adapted and caused to be changed multi times by atmospheric conditions. Where variations to human natural beliefs occurred. That then had to be coerced to be believed from reading of the exact same documents.

 

[paarsurrey]

But why not? What was he lacking? What are the Mormon scriptures lacking to authenticate them for non-Mormon Christians?

Being yet another denomination of 32000+ Pauline-Christians, aren't the Mormons as errant as other Pauline-Christians, please?
Right?

Regards

 

[Moonjuice]

Proceeded by a bunch of judgmental high horse nonsense worded specifically to insult.
But hey, that is the Christian© standard, is it not?

And you wonder why Mormons dislike being associated with such?


Yes, judgmental.


If that is what Christians© consider "discussion" it is no surprise that their churches are seeing lower attendance.


Yes, do yu?
I mean, do you know about Mormon theology that is not rooted in bias judgmental snobbery like you presented in post #18?


Ah...
So because they do it is ok for you too?

You can not claim the higher ground whilst treading the lower ground.

We need a thumbs down button.

 

[Watchmen]

Being yet another denomination of 32000+ Pauline-Christians, aren't the Mormons as errant as other Pauline-Christians, please?
Right?

Regards

I would say more errant.

 

[Watchmen]

But what happens when your view of Christ turns out to be radically different from mainstream Christianity?

Still waiting for an answer on this one.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

But what happens when your view of Christ turns out to be radically different from mainstream Christianity?

When has truth ever been found through consensus?

 

[Watchmen]

When has truth ever been found through consensus?

This isn’t a matter of consensus. This is about a fringe group claiming to be the same as the whole when they are actually radically different.

If you eat an oatmeal-raisin cookie, can you legitimately call it a chocolate chip cookie? I don’t think so.

 

[Katzpur]

This isn’t a matter of consensus. This is about a fringe group claiming to be the same as the whole when they are actually radically different.

If you eat an oatmeal-raisin cookie, can you legitimately call it a chocolate chip cookie? I don’t think so.

I've never heard Mormonism described as being just a flavor of traditional Christianity. Sure, oatmeal cookies and chocolate chip cookies aren't the same, but they're both cookies. One's not a granola bar.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

This isn’t a matter of consensus. This is about a fringe group claiming to be the same as the whole when they are actually radically different.

If you eat an oatmeal-raisin cookie, can you legitimately call it a chocolate chip cookie? I don’t think so.

I don't know everything about the LDS Church - but isn't one of their main claims that they are different from mainstream Christianity?