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- Thread starter F0uad
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Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/nibbana.html
...and then perhaps...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/nirvanaverb.html
...and then perhaps...
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/nirvanaverb.html
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F0uad
Well-Known Member
I have read the second link a little i don't think i am really way off?
Just a question and i hope its not insulting but can you achieve ''nirvana'' by using weed?
Nyingjé Tso
Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
Vanakkam,
Sorry, I would like to add something:
Weed and drug create attachement. You are bounded to it, and it's temporary, thus not truth. In my opinion, it doesn't lead to Nirvana or any liberation, it is fake and bound you to it, not liberating you.
You attain it through effort and teachings, and again more efforts, and work. There is no "easy" way such as taking drug and instantly attain BuddhaHood or Liberation
I just wanted to say this of course this is only an opinion, if any friend buddhist is offended please tell me I'll correct my post _/\_
Sorry, I would like to add something:
Weed and drug create attachement. You are bounded to it, and it's temporary, thus not truth. In my opinion, it doesn't lead to Nirvana or any liberation, it is fake and bound you to it, not liberating you.
You attain it through effort and teachings, and again more efforts, and work. There is no "easy" way such as taking drug and instantly attain BuddhaHood or Liberation
I just wanted to say this of course this is only an opinion, if any friend buddhist is offended please tell me I'll correct my post _/\_
You are correct, but for a different reason. Yes, it is an attachment, but most importantly it is an intoxicant, and as such is proscribed, #5 of The Five Precepts. They are not commandments like "Thou shalt not... ", but when intoxicated, one is not in control of one's faculties, judgment or behaviors. It would be very easy to then "violate" other Precepts and Perfections. One translation of Precept #5 is "I will refrain from intoxicants, which lead to carelessness".
I have read the second link a little i don't think i am really way off?
Just a question and i hope its not insulting but can you achieve ''nirvana'' by using weed?
No way. While there is an unfortunate movement denying it, the basic ethical principles ("Sila") of Buddhism establish that drugs are not to be used.
In short.... my answer is no.... Cannabis alone with not help you obtain liberation.
Longer answer:
Don't mistake something that can help open the doors of perception with the door itself.
Some wordings of the precepts say 'no intoxicants',
others way 'do not cloud the mind with intoxicants'.
One seems to advocate abstinence,
while the other seems to acknowledge moderation.
I mean... what is an intoxicant exactly?
Could TV intoxicate the mind?
I think the answer is yes.
Can you learn a great deal from responsible TV usage?
I think the answer is yes.
BUT!
Can watching TV tell you all you need to know to be knowledgeable, free from ignorance???
I think the answer is no.
Experience will ultimately be the door.
Explanations and so forth will just be things that aid us,
or help us give language to experience once we pass through the many doors along the way.
But eventually even language can't explain what is happening.
And maybe even the language will be what holds us back.
Do you understand the analogy?
Longer answer:
Don't mistake something that can help open the doors of perception with the door itself.
Some wordings of the precepts say 'no intoxicants',
others way 'do not cloud the mind with intoxicants'.
One seems to advocate abstinence,
while the other seems to acknowledge moderation.
I mean... what is an intoxicant exactly?
Could TV intoxicate the mind?
I think the answer is yes.
Can you learn a great deal from responsible TV usage?
I think the answer is yes.
BUT!
Can watching TV tell you all you need to know to be knowledgeable, free from ignorance???
I think the answer is no.
Experience will ultimately be the door.
Explanations and so forth will just be things that aid us,
or help us give language to experience once we pass through the many doors along the way.
But eventually even language can't explain what is happening.
And maybe even the language will be what holds us back.
Do you understand the analogy?
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Nirvana in Buddhism is The End of All Suffering by Thich Nhat Hanh
No drugs necessary or for that matter recommended, it would be, in my opinion, a drug induced high and false and not nirvana at all. I wish I could remember the quote from The Lost Teachings of Yoga by Georg Feuerstein (which discussed the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali extensively), I shall have to look for it and post it if I find it. But it pretty much said using drugs was the wrong way to go and would not get you to where you thought you were going
No drugs necessary or for that matter recommended, it would be, in my opinion, a drug induced high and false and not nirvana at all. I wish I could remember the quote from The Lost Teachings of Yoga by Georg Feuerstein (which discussed the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali extensively), I shall have to look for it and post it if I find it. But it pretty much said using drugs was the wrong way to go and would not get you to where you thought you were going
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Drugs will get you to a nice cozy Deva-state, but you eventually float back down.
Murkve
Student of Change
From my understanding, Nibbana is not so much the destruction of desires, but rather the destruction of attachment, which results from the destruction of ignorance.
Think about it this way: Have you ever had a dream which caused you to wake up suddenly, in a cold sweat, breathing heavily? Looking around, the feelings of unease, stress and worry still linger. After a few seconds, you realize that what you were experiencing was not as it seemed, and your attachment to the experiences of the dream, along those feelings of dis-ease, or dukkha, fades away. You exhale, content in the knowledge that you never had anything to worry about in the first place.
This momentary state of mind is a good approximation of Nibbana.
ratikala
Istha gosthi
wiping out of desire , yes , in that desire equals grasping ,
but not a wiping out of appreciation .
at best one might achive a momentary state which resembles nirvana , but it is a false sence and not one acheived through true realisation .just a question and i hope its not insulting but can you achieve ''nirvana'' by using weed?
:yes: .... me too !
the perfect word responsible usage ,
in truth an intoxicant clouds the mind , ...
now experiencing a clouded mind might in some way be instructive ?
it might help us understand what clear mind is .
Murkve
Student of Change
Not that I'm disagreeing - as the human mind operates on differentials - so one must know sadness to know happiness, yada yada yada. But shouldn't everyone have an innate idea about what it means to have a clouded mind just from daily life? I mean, you wake up in the morning and you can barely form a coherent sentence.
Why would someone want to use mind-altering substances just to get a good view of FALSE perceptions when we already have a fantastic view of our own already?
ratikala
Istha gosthi
dear murkve ,
no need , ..... sorry I was not advocating that they do
I was simply saying that it wasnt worth attatching to the idea of mind altering drugs as a method of acheiving insight or enlightenment or holding to the notion that any altered state has anything to do with hightened reality .
true insight comes from a clear calm mind that is totaly awake .
no need , ..... sorry I was not advocating that they do
I was simply saying that it wasnt worth attatching to the idea of mind altering drugs as a method of acheiving insight or enlightenment or holding to the notion that any altered state has anything to do with hightened reality .
true insight comes from a clear calm mind that is totaly awake .
Musty
Active Member
I thought it was more about lettings go of attachments and desire is a part of this.
DreadFish
Cosmic Vagabond
I have struggled with whether using certain intoxicants can be a learning experience for a while.
In my own experience, having tuned my mind into perspectives I had otherwise not even realized existed, I find that it has opened up my awareness to just how absolutely vast and indescribable reality is.
Just like any other experience, you make it what it is through perception. Still, Nirvana has no cause, so no conditioned means can influence it's arising because it does not arise. If it did arise, it would also cease.
So, in reference to the OP's question: Nirvana is just a label for the cessation of ignorance which comes about through the releasing of attachments. This means anything we add to reality. Defining something is adding a conceptual layer to the otherwise ineffable experience. Identifying with something is defining it: "This is me", "this is mine", "I believe that things are this way".
This is just in my opinion though.
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Murkve
Student of Change
That is a brilliant observation. It contributes a lot to my own understanding of Nibbana. Thank you.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Well put Dreadfish. :0)