1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Question to theists regarding creation

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sayak83, Jun 27, 2020.

  1. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,768
    Ratings:
    +8,272
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    For theists:
    For those who believe that God or gods created this universe, my question is
    Is the essence of the universe same or different from the essence of God?
    Did God create a new essence with which the stuff of the universe was made?
    And what about our essence? Is it the same as that of the universe or different from it?
     
    #1 sayak83, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,281
    Ratings:
    +2,529
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    I’m undecided as to whether God is a creator God because I don’t know how God interacts with nature.

    But I believe that the material of the universe is too crude to be called God.

    Our essence is spiritual in my beliefs not physical so I would say that it is different to the universe which I consider to be entirely physical in nature.

    Kind regards :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Eddi

    Eddi currently engaged in spiritual warfare

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,298
    Ratings:
    +847
    Religion:
    Christian - currently interested in Liberation Theology
    I believe that only God himself can answer those questions with any degree of certainty, that we can only speculate and that it will forever remain a mystery to us all.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3,396
    Ratings:
    +905
    Religion:
    pagan, nonchristian, nonplatonist
    Same. They only differ in quality. See Hesiod's ages. :)

    No.

    We are the universe. Same essence. :)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    9,774
    Ratings:
    +2,736
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Purely hypothetical.

    I think it is different. Light and sound wave emanated from God and matter consists of both.

    getkey.php

    I think that when God said "Let there be light" - within that light was all the information that was needed to begin the process of driving the material world into existence - much like DNA has the information to create our bodies.

    Transferring Information with Light | Study.com

    Yet, they are emanating from the spiritual world of which God is a spirit,

    Purely hypothetical
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  6. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,149
    Ratings:
    +1,651
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    God's essence is different from creation. But He created all things to reflect one of His attributes. He created human to potentially reflect all His attributes, though that depends on our effort to purify the soul.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    14,374
    Ratings:
    +5,164
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    In my Advaita (non-dual=God and creation are not-two) philosophy it is all Brahman/God. The universe is a thought-form of God and not ultimately real (Maya=Illusion).
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,768
    Ratings:
    +8,272
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Can two entities having different essences have similar attributes? Can numbers have mass, for example.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    22,593
    Ratings:
    +9,427
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    @ Sayak, many Hindus believe that. The followers of Dvaita (Duality). And (as the word that Hindu forum uses), 'village Hindus', those who are not much into philosophies.
    In my universe, nothing other than Brahman exists. But then, my Brahman is not a God, it is the stuff of the universe.
    I am a strong atheist.
     
    #9 Aupmanyav, Jun 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    7,266
    Ratings:
    +3,998
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    My Master warns us "Beware what you ask God, he might give it, you might not like it ... be very specific"

    Once I prayed to my Master to explain Creation to me. My Master came into my dream and explained it. It was very interesting
    But when I woke up, all info was erased from my memory (normally I am good at remembering dreams).

    Next time I should pray: Please explain XXX to me, and make sure I remember for the rest of my existence

    But since this day the desire to speculate about Creation has kind of vanished too:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    6,149
    Ratings:
    +1,651
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yes, the Sun and a Mirror. The image of the Sun in the Mirror have same attributes as then Sun (to a lesser extent). But the essence of Sun is different from the Mirror.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    48,186
    Ratings:
    +20,245
    Religion:
    Love
    From Meher Baba, first, words can't really describe reality which is beyond the intellect. But for an intellectual frame of reference, there are "10 States of God":
    • God in Beyond-Beyond
    • God in Beyond
    • God as Emanator, Sustainer and Dissolver
    • God as Embodied Soul
    • God as Soul in the State of Evolution
    • God as Human Soul in the State of Reincarnation
    • God in The State of Spiritually Advanced Souls
    • God as The Divinely Absorbed
    • God as Liberated Incarnate Soul
    • God as Man-God and God-Man
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  13. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    20,249
    Ratings:
    +8,348
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    Same and different. I’m Vishistadvaitin... all diversity subsumed to and generated from a single unit. The same in quality but not quantity. Or as Achintya-Bheda-Abheda posits, inconceivable sameness and difference.

    sarvam khalvidam brahma - “all this verily is Brahman”.
    “With a single fragment of My power I pervade and support this entire universe.” Bhagavad Gita 10.42

    So yeah, the same yet different. Trippy! :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9,630
    Ratings:
    +5,209
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    Why not include deists?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,396
    Ratings:
    +3,710
    Religion:
    Christian
    It’s all from energy.....everything is energy, just in different forms. Atomic, radiant, thermal, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  16. The Hammer

    The Hammer Virtue, Piety, Study
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,587
    Ratings:
    +1,691
    Religion:
    Druidry
    I believe that the gods and creation are made of similar stuff, but not identical stuff. They are both energetic reflections of each other, and only with both, is reality whole.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    11,860
    Ratings:
    +6,359
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    I have often been intrigued by this word "essence" because I cannot find it mentioned anywhere in our scripture as Christians. So I looked it up and it means ....
    "the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character."....it is also described as..."an extract or concentrate obtained from a plant or other matter".

    So I think you summed that up well. If the Creator is pure energy, in a form unknown to human experience, then that would explain why he has always existed (as energy has always existed) and why energy can create matter.

    It doesn't appear to be the same, since the thing created is always inferior to its creator.

    God created the building blocks in matter that explains the existence of all other things. It also explains why God had to inject something into that matter, which of its own accord, it cannot produce...."life".

    Matter can be living or non living, but all made of the same molecules in different structures.
    Living matter can reproduce by mechanisms that are basically automatic....no creature has to plan to be reproductive.....they are following a program installed by their Creator. Its in their DNA to perpetuate the life that God gave them.

    I do not believe that God is a material Being, but as a pure dynamic and unlimited energy source, I believe that this, coupled with unmatched intelligence is what led to to become the Creator.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    6,396
    Ratings:
    +3,710
    Religion:
    Christian
    You’re right....

    “Highly respected scholar and Catholic priest John L. McKenzie, S.J., in his Dictionary of the Bible, says: “The trinity of persons within the unity of nature is defined in terms of ‘person’ and ‘nature’ which are Gk (Greek) philosophical terms; actually the terms do not appear in the Bible. The trinitarian definitions arose as the result of long controversies in which these terms and others such as ‘essence’ and ‘substance’ were erroneously applied to God by some theologians.”—(Italics and bold type are mine.) (New York, 1965), p. 899.”
     
  19. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    2,076
    Ratings:
    +390
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    Bible tells God is spirit. I think it is different essence than matter and exists in different level.

    God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
    John 4:24
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    35,289
    Ratings:
    +4,895
    Religion:
    Christian/Shamanic
    God created the universe out of God's essence. Everything is "God-stuff."
    Human beings, rocks, rivers, dirt, flowers, clams -- all are made out of the same material as the stars.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...