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Question to Muslims What is Jinn?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Psalm23, Jan 17, 2022.

  1. Psalm23

    Psalm23 Well-Known Member

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    I have see the word Jinn occasionally spoken of. Please explain what Jinn is.
     
  2. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Free spirit

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    A Jinn is a supernatural spirit below the level of angels and devils.
     
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  3. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Active Member

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    I have also been curious. In fact, I was thinking of making a similar thread.
    Would you say that Djinn are closer to human or angel?

    Personally, I don't believe in devils but I do believe in demons.
    That difference may just be semantics, but to me a devil has been
    described as a fallen angel. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK
    Muslims, like Jews, don't think angels can fall, as they don't have
    free will to disobey G-d, right?

    So, where would Djinn be in relation to demons? Do Djinn have free will?
    I guess I just am wondering if Djinn are closer to humans, angels or demons.
    If you know what I mean. Thank you for your time and patience.
     
  4. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    Yes .. they can be righteous or not in the same way as humans.
    They are not usually visible to us, like angels.
    i.e. they are not created from matter
     
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  5. The Hammer

    The Hammer Corporate Board Stooge
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    Curious.... Is the spectrum of supernaturallity a line between human and Angel/demon?
     
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  6. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    It means hidden being, and it refers to the class of creation that occupies the unseen world connected to us.

    By definition it includes Angels, but this got lost in history overtime, despite Quran being clear that Iblis was once an Angel and was only one of the Angels who didn't prostrate to Adam and disobeyed God because he was of the Jinn.. meaning he wanted representatives of God to be among his species and not a human.

    The Quran shows those deemed gods would be Angels, but those they are connected to are not only not gods they aren't Angels eithers, they are Jinn, and particularly the offspring of Iblis and his tribe were being called upon. The Arabs hence were worshiping the Devil and jinn under him, nothing to do with sons or daughters of God as they claimed.

    The so called intercessors had no proof from either scripture form or any miracles from their soothsaying leaders, and so Quran says really most humans worshiped Jinn, and not Angels.

    God's Angels of course the chosen from Angels, and those are the ones we have to believe in, like Human Messengers being chosen, we have to believe in their protection from God.

    A huge proof of this is Quran says they make Angels into daughters of God but elsewhere said they attributed lineage to the Jinn.

    So put it together, and it's obvious, everywhere Jinn and Angels are talked about, Angels are the saints of Jinn, and God chooses from Angels (subgroup) his close drawn Angels.

    It's only the chosen Angels who can't fall and are guaranteed guidance.
     
    #6 Link, Jan 18, 2022
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  7. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Active Member

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    OK, I had to google Iblis because that's not a name I know as a Jew.

    If I understand this right, G-d created the Djinn (or is it Jinn??) first?

    And from among their number G-d took the good Djinn and elevated them to Angels
    and the evil Djinn became demons and the ones in-between, who are most like
    us, stayed Djinn with I imagine their own society and culture? Or are all Djinn in one
    camp or the other now?

    That is interesting, and AFAIK even Kabbalah doesn't mention how exactly the
    Angels were created. It's only known they were created first. 'Heaven then Earth'.
     
  8. Sedim Haba

    Sedim Haba Active Member

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    IDK if this is directed to me, but personally I don't think so.
    The line is possibly simply between matter and spirit.

    There are possibly many non-physical entities across many
    cultures that some people can perceive and/or can be perceived
    by all if the entity so wishes and can change to at least semi-corporeal.
     
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  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    As far as I know, jinn and angels are separate creation.
    Angels are made from light, and jinn from smokeless fire.

    Angels do not have free-will, while jinn do, in the same way as humans.

    ..and yes .. angels were probably created before jinn, but that does not teach us anything one way or the other .. does it?
     
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  10. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    I think they were all Angels in the start. There is a line from Sahifa Sajjadiya that says were it not for Iblis, everyone would have been obedient to God. No Human or Jinn would have disobeyed God were it not for him.

    Iblis caused a rift and argument in the high council (Angels).
     
  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    No, not that..
    Iblees is a jinn who worshipped with the angels. They are both created from non-matter, and that is where what they have in common stops.
    Jinn are similar to humans in as much as they have free-will.
    Just as humans can be extremely pious, so can jinn.

    Iblees was extremely pious, and worshipped along with the angels.
    However, when G-d created humans, he asked the angels to all bow down to Adam. They all did .. EXCEPT Iblees .. he was not an angel and claimed that he was superior to mankind so he wasn't going to obey.

    In other words his pride caused his downfall, and he asked for a reprieve [ granted ], but vowed to G-d that he would oppose mankind and cause their destruction through envy.
    ...
    ..and G-d decreed regular remembrance of G-d would save them from the destruction that satan was orchestrating
    i.e. taking mankind to hell along with satan
     
  12. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Salam

    There is this sermon of Imam Ali (a) I will give a link to as the content speaks itself to high to be from normal humans:

    Sermon 192: Praise be to Allah who wears the apparel of Honour and Dignity… | Nahjul Balagha Part 1, The Sermons | Al-Islam.org

    In that Imam Ali (a) says:



    If Allah had wanted to create Adam from a light whose glare would have dazzled the eyes, whose handsomeness would have amazed the wits and whose fragrance would have caught the breath, He could have done so; and if He had done so, people would have bowed to him in humility and the trial of the angels through him would have become easier. But Allah, the Glorified, tries His creatures by means of those things whose real nature they do not know in order to distinguish (good and bad) for them through the trial, and to remove vanity from them and keep them and keep them aloof from pride and self-admiration.


    You should take a lesson from what Allah did with Satan; namely He nullified his great acts and extensive efforts on account of the vanity of one moment, although Satan had worshipped Allah for six thousand years - whether by the reckoning of this world or of the next world is not known. Who now can remain safe from Allah after Satan by committing a similar disobedience? None at all.

    Allah, the Glorified, cannot let a human being enter Paradise if he does the same thing for which Allah turned out from it an angel. His command for the inhabitants in the sky and of the earth is the same. There is no friendship between Allah and any individual out of His creation so as to give him license for an undesirable thing which He has held unlawful for all the worlds.


    There are many sources for this hadith, they are as follows:

    Alternative Sources for Sermon 192
    (1) Ibn Tawus, Kitab al-yaqin, 196;

    (2) al-Kulayni, Furu’ al-Kafi, IV, 168;

    (3) al-Saduq, al-Faqih, I, 152;

    (4) al-Zamakhshari, Rabi’, I, 113;

    (5) al-Mawardi, A’lam, 97;

    (6) See al-Tehrani, al-Dhari’ah, VII, 204.



    There is also the hadith:

    • Imam Ali (AS) said, When the soul of a believer ascends to the heavens, the angels are amazed and say: It is incredible how he was saved from a place where the best of us got corrupted.
      الإمامُ عليٌّ (عَلَيهِ الّسَلامُ) : إذا صَعَدَتْ رُوحُ المُؤْمِنِ إلَى السَّماءِتَعَجَّبَتِ المَلائِكَةُ وَ قالَتْ عَجَباً كَيْفَ نَجا مِنْ دار فَسَدَ فيها خِيارُنا
     
  13. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    @Link
    Most Christians think that lucifer/ibless was/is an angel.

    The Qur'an says otherwise.
    Furthermore, it makes a lot of sense.
    If angels were not the perfect "sons of G-d", then why should we have any reason to believe what they say?
    Hence, maybe angel Gabriel made "mistakes" etc. etc.
     
  14. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Salam


    Good question.

    Like humans have Prophets that are chosen from them, if you are chosen Angel, you been chosen for a reason.

    God's Angels or the drawn close Angels are his chosen ones. Same reason we distinguish between chosen and non-chosen humans.

    Quran has commanded us to remind and warn, but we aren't God's Messengers. God's Angels and his forces from humans are chosen by him and chosen for a reason.

    Iblis was an Angel, but he wasn't one of his chosen ones. I hope that makes sense. Actually trusting an Angel is not easy task, it takes the eye of truth. We ourselves as humans don't all have that and might mix misguided Jinn with Angels.
     
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    I'm afraid that it doesn't make sense to me, no.

    50 And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command. Will ye choose him and his seed for your protecting friends instead of Me, when they are an enemy unto you ? Calamitous is the exchange for evil-doers.
    -Qur'an Surah Al-Kahf-

    I would say that jinn means jinn, and there is also a surah about the jinn.
     
  16. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Why doesn't Quran talk about creation of Angels? Whenever it mentions Angels, it talks about creation of Jinn. This should suffice that Angels are subgroup of Jinn.
     
  17. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    Jinn and angels are both invisible to humans.

    There exist amongst all three, those that read the Qur'an. :D
     
  18. Link

    Link Well-Known Member
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    Yeah but when it emphasizes on Angels for example in Surah Hjir, it then goes into creation of Jinn. It doesn't talk about creation of Angels. It's obvious to me why.
     
  19. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
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    26 Verily We created man of potter's clay of black mud altered,
    27 And the jinn did We create aforetime of essential fire.
    28 And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,
    29 So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.
    30 So the angels fell prostrate, all of them together
    31 Save Iblis. He refused to be among the prostrate.
    32 He said: O Iblis! What aileth thee that thou art not among the prostrate ?
    33 He said: I am not one to prostrate myself unto a mortal whom Thou hast created out of potter's clay of black mud altered!

    -Qur'an Al-Hijr-

    Looks pretty clear to me.
    The narrative starts off with the creation of mankind, and then it talks about jinn being made of "essential fire".
    Then we have all the angels prostrating to Adam, except Iblees.
    He was proud of being from fire and refused to bow down to a mortal made of clay.

    Anyhow, you are entitled to your beliefs, but I remain certain that Iblees was never an angel. He might as well of been, as before mankind came along he was "top dog".
    Mankind spoilt all that, and he didn't like it.
    Therein lies the lesson. :oops:
     
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