Question to christians

[halbhh]

Very interesting to say God alone as a: 'Sole Being'. That seems to match Scripture.
However, ' that which was in the beginning alone ' (aka God) doesn't quite match Scripture because God had No beginning - Psalms 90:2
God was Not in the beginning because God is from everlasting meaning: God had No beginning.
ALL come ' after ' God's heavenly Son was created - Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:13 B.
We come ' through ' heavenly Jesus who was created by his Creator, his Heavenly Father (Life Giver).
They are the 'us' found at Genesis 1:26.

While I think we already agree, still there's something interesting (important too) to examine. People all already agreeing that God is eternal, always was, had no beginning point in time, are also using the phrase "In the beginning" without thinking (my guess!) that God has a beginning, but instead that this existence here, this universe, does.

Let me say things we probably already agree on, but are worth looking at anyway.

So, when we say (from scripture) that Christ was with God "in the beginning" or "since the beginning", we are not trying to say, nor thinking, nor did I for instance expect that anyone would take it to mean an idea that Christ didn't exist with God before that moment in time (not the intended sense of meaning!). That would be an added idea which I don't intend to be communicated when I've said "He was with God since the beginning". Instead, when I read:

John 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.

I am simply taking the words to mean that they are already together when this Universe, this creation, is brought into being. (I think this is the common way of taking the wording also)

So "in the beginning" won't mean to us (usually) that Christ started to exist at a certain specified moment in time (one that we ourselves specify). That would be an entirely separate question which itself I should not try to say I know I think (Why? -- see Isaiah chapter 55: God is truly above our encompassing with our mere thoughts and mere mortal understandings) Rather, He was with God in the beginning (of this Universe).

So, in summary, in terms of what we here in this mortal existence think of as "time" -- our notion -- we cannot and should not attempt to say how Christ first existed. Part of the problem is trying to apply our own limited notions about "time" (of this particular universe) to someone so much above us. That's my understanding at the moment.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....................
So "in the beginning" won't mean to us (usually) that Christ started to exist at a certain specified moment in time (one that we ourselves specify). That would be an entirely separate question which itself I should not try to say I know I think (Why? -- see Isaiah chapter 55: God is truly above our encompassing with our mere thoughts and mere mortal understandings) Rather, He was with God in the beginning (of this Universe).
So, in summary, in terms of what we here in this mortal existence think of as "time" -- our notion -- we cannot and should not attempt to say how Christ first existed. Part of the problem is trying to apply our own limited notions about "time" (of this particular universe) to someone so much above us. That's my understanding at the moment.

Very interesting post ^above^ and I'd like to address the part I noted above.
Yes, I would say per-human heavenly Jesus was with God in the beginning but 'more' than at the beginning of the Universe.
The reason I say 'more' ( than at the beginning of the Universe ) is because of Genesis 1:1
Please notice that it states God created the heavens, then it says ' and ' the earth.
So, before the visible material realm of existence came into existence, then first was the invisible heavenly realm of existence (angels).
Thus, pre-human Jesus was at both: the start or beginning of the heavenly realm, and then the start or beginning of the earthly realm.
Pre-human Jesus being the other part of the already existing 'us' as found at Genesis 1:26

Yes, God's thoughts are higher then our thoughts - Isaiah 55:8-9
I too like reading down to Isaiah 55:13 because we can see that there will be a reversal of earth's damage and a restoring of paradise to earth.
Instead of thorn bushes, instead of the stinging briar, will be the fir tree, will be the myrtle tree. Also see Isaiah 41:19.
Isaiah 60:13 B ends with God making the place of His feet (earth) glorious.
And at Isaiah 55:13 B God (KJV LORD is in all Upper-Case letters ) which stands the Tetragrammaton 'YHWH' for God's name.
....the LORD for a name, or will make a name for the God of the Bible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, but Jesus isn't the second person of the Trinity, he's a creation of the Trinity. Jesus, aka Christ Michael, is a Creator Son.

Huh? Who created the trinity______________
Christ Jesus is one person, His God and Father in Heaven is another person (Hebrews 9:24) God's spirit is Not a third person of the other two.
I find God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is a neuter "it" - Numbers 11:17,25; Romans 8:16,26.
(Newer King James changed 'it' to him to try to make Gods' spirit into a person)

 

[halbhh]

Very interesting post ^above^ and I'd like to address the part I noted above.
Yes, I would say per-human heavenly Jesus was with God in the beginning but 'more' than at the beginning of the Universe.
The reason I say 'more' ( than at the beginning of the Universe ) is because of Genesis 1:1
Please notice that it states God created the heavens, then it says ' and ' the earth.
So, before the visible material realm of existence came into existence, then first was the invisible heavenly realm of existence (angels).
Thus, pre-human Jesus was at both: the start or beginning of the heavenly realm, and then the start or beginning of the earthly realm.
Pre-human Jesus being the other part of the already existing 'us' as found at Genesis 1:26

Yes, God's thoughts are higher then our thoughts - Isaiah 55:8-9
I too like reading down to Isaiah 55:13 because we can see that there will be a reversal of earth's damage and a restoring of paradise to earth.
Instead of thorn bushes, instead of the stinging briar, will be the fir tree, will be the myrtle tree. Also see Isaiah 41:19.
Isaiah 60:13 B ends with God making the place of His feet (earth) glorious.
And at Isaiah 55:13 B God (KJV LORD is in all Upper-Case letters ) which stands the Tetragrammaton 'YHWH' for God's name.
....the LORD for a name, or will make a name for the God of the Bible.

Yes, the later chapters of Isaiah are so wonderful. Chapter 55 is sort of the gospel in preview. One could say it's the Gospel even. For me, this is the most shining moment in all the old testament.

 

[sojourner]

That "God" exists apart from and beyond us, as well as in our here and now, as well as within us and within each other, yes. I understand "God" as being omnipresent. And that religious Christianity represents this omnipresence by using three essential relationship characterizations: "Father/Creator", "Son/Brother", and "Spirit/Benefactor".

You beat me to it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, the later chapters of Isaiah are so wonderful. Chapter 55 is sort of the gospel in preview. One could say it's the Gospel even. For me, this is the most shining moment in all the old testament.

I'm also fond of Isaiah's writings.
When a Jewish 'atheist' who was a Bible reader (whose family defected from Russia when he was 13) asked me about the Isaiah statue at the United Nations Plaza I did Not know what he was talking about so he took me on a small tour of the U.N. and to see the 'Isaiah Wall'.
Isaiah 2:4 was quoted and I wanted to know more, so I went and bought a study cross-reference Bible and I too find chapters of Isaiah are so wonderful.
..... and we can all search for God - Isaiah 55:6-13 - God's Word is to have sure success - Isaiah 55:10-11

 

[Colt]

Huh? Who created the trinity______________
Christ Jesus is one person, His God and Father in Heaven is another person (Hebrews 9:24) God's spirit is Not a third person of the other two.
I find God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is a neuter "it" - Numbers 11:17,25; Romans 8:16,26.
(Newer King James changed 'it' to him to try to make Gods' spirit into a person)

The Trinity is of the I AM. Christ Michael is of Trinity origin.

 

[Muffled]

Do you believe in the trinity?

Why? Why not?

I believe in the Trinity because it is in the Bible.

 

[Muffled]

Do you believe God as trinity has three centers of conciousness or just one?

I do not believe God as trinity; I believe Trinity as God. There is only one conscience that is God's.

 

[Muffled]

I lean toward the idea that God-consciousness is not "centered", it's omnipresent. God is not "a being", God is "all being".

I believe I do not believe that God is all being. I believe omnipresence does not mean a separation of conscience.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Trinity is of the I AM. Christ Michael is of Trinity origin.

Huh? Please explain the ^ above ^ because I find in Scripture that only God is from everlasting - Psalms 90:2
God had No beginning, whereas pre-human heavenly Jesus had a beginning.
Jesus was "IN" the beginning, but Not 'before' the beginning as his God and Father was ' before' the beginning - Revelation 3:14 B
Besides God's spirit (Psalms 104:30 ) is Not a person but a neuter "IT" - Numbers 11:17, 25; Romans 8:16, 26
( Newer King James changed 'it' to he or him to try to make God's spirit into a person )

 

[1213]

Do you believe in the trinity?

Why? Why not?

I believe what the Bible tells and it doesn’t teach Trinity.