Question to all members about if Amanaki have been proselyting

[stvdv]

It is great you practice what your Faith Teaches. You talk and share when the audience is receptive, well done you are here and sharing.

Regards Tony

My information was Metainformation (Metadata). You can not compare that with proselytizing.

 

[oldbadger]

I want to be 100% open to all members here, There has been some indication from a few members that they feel me Proselyte about Falun Gong. And since it is against the RF rules, it would be very good both to me and to you if you could be fully honest and say if you feel I have been proselyting to the extent that I should be reported for it (feel free to report me)

What I speak of in this forum are and will be about cultivation of Falun Gong, and some see it as proselyting, I have been given advice from one member (i do not give the name in this thread) that maybe another forum more directly related to Falun Gong would be better for me, and I see this as a good advice.

So I put out a poll. feel free to give an honest poll answer I don't get offended if it shows the majority feels I been proselyting. then I just need to agree with mods how they see my future in the forum. (mods, please vote too)

I cannot vote because I have not read you enough.
Why don't you just trust the mods?
I don't expect that you would get in to deep trouble straight off because the mods would warn you about such things.

Don't get too upset about this, ok?

 

[stvdv]

I in no way, did say it was.

Regards Tony

No? Were you really not?

We were talking about proselytizing and then you shift the reply with:
"Are there Gurus, Teachers? Do they have followers? What was the need for the Guru's if there is no intention to spread the teaching further?"

And then saying "I in no way did say it was", I called this way a bit sneaky.

Spreading the teaching as a Guru to His students can in no way be compared to evangelizing

Let that be very clear.

 

[stvdv]

But even that is the promotion of a spiritual view.

NO

I call this just "being a decent human being"

The one not indulging in arrogance

Just about some core Human Values

 

[Vinayaka]

No? Were you really not?

We were talking about proselytizing and then you shift the reply with:
"Are there Gurus, Teachers? Do they have followers? What was the need for the Guru's if there is no intention to spread the teaching further?"

And then saying "I in no way did say it was", I called this way a bit sneaky.

Spreading the teaching as a Guru to His students can be in no way be compared to evangelizing

Let that be very clear.

Students/Seekers seek teachers, not the other way around, (which is proselytising). Traditionally, students have to happen along before a teacher can teach. Otherwise you're just talking into thin air.

 

[columbus]

Sorry, but this is simply false. There are lots of faiths and religions that do not have a 'spread the word' requirement.

More to the point,
there are members of major proselytizing faiths who don't do that themselves.

They don't proselytize. They belong to a religious community that encourages proselytizing. But they don't accept that part of the teachings, so they just don't do it.
Happens all the time. People are devout members of a religious community or organization, without swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

Tom

 

[Vinayaka]

More to the point,
there are members of major proselytizing faiths who don't do that themselves.

They don't proselytize. They belong to a religious community that encourages proselytizing. But they don't accept that part of the teachings, so they just don't do it.
Happens all the time. People are devout members of a religious community or organization, without swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

Tom

Oh absolutely. I did think of that after I posted, and there are many of them. Thanks for the correction.

Still there are sects and groups that have a far higher percentage of proselytising members that others.

 

[Left Coast]

NO

I call this just "being a decent human being"

The one not indulging in arrogance

Just about some core Human Values

YES

The belief that asserting that "x is true" is "arrogant" is not a universally acknowledged "Core Human Value."

You're debating with me right now, asserting that I'm wrong and you're right. As a function of your religious beliefs.

I don't mind you doing that, but let's not pretend that's not what you're doing.

 

[stvdv]

Students/Seekers seek teachers, not the other way around, (which is proselytising). Traditionally, students have to happen along before a teacher can teach. Otherwise you're just talking into thin air.

In Hinduism I also read that the Master "calls" the student
But also here it is NOT evangelizing type of calling
It is specific "1 to 1", in a dream for example; not on the street

 

[stvdv]

YES

The belief that asserting that "x is true" is "arrogant" is not a universally acknowledged "Core Human Value."

You're debating with me right now, asserting that I'm wrong and you're right. As a function of your religious beliefs.

I don't mind you doing that, but let's not pretend that's not what you're doing.

As per definition "my way is the highway" is just plain arrogance
1) You must have studied and seen all other ways
2) You must have understood all other ways
3) You must be able to prove them all wrong

Which human being can claim such a thing?

That is not about debating about "right or wrong"

That is similar as claiming "1+1 is not equal to 2"

It makes no sense at all,

 

[Left Coast]

As per definition "my way is the highway" is just plain arrogance
1) You must have studied and seen all other ways
2) You must have understood all other ways
3) You must be able to prove them all wrong

Which human being can claim such a thing?

That is not about debating about "right or wrong"

That is similar as claiming "1+1 is not equal to 2"

It makes no sense at all,

I don't have to study every conspiracy theory about the moon landing to conclude it happened. Nor do I have to "prove every conspiracy theory wrong." It's not "arrogant" to say, "The moon landing occurred."

And you're still missing the point, which is that even now, you're still arguing with me that you're right and I'm wrong.

Which again, I think you should be fully allowed to do here. But let's not pretend that's not what you're doing.

 

[stvdv]

I don't have to study every conspiracy theory about the moon landing to conclude it happened

This is not about moon landing. This is about people claiming that their religion is the only right one; for others also

That is plain arrogance. As per definition. As long as they are not Omniscient they can't claim such a thing

That is not about debating. That is a fact.

Black is black, you can keep on saying it is white
But who you try to fool? Not me.

Note: If they say "My way is the highway for me; I won't say a thing", just be aware it's just an opinion.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Spreading the teaching as a Guru to His students can in no way be compared to evangelizing

Again, I did not say it was

My reply was to another and that all Faiths in some way have an aim to teach others. I never mentioned 'evangelizing'.

Regards Tony

 

[Left Coast]

This is not about moon landing. This is about people claiming that their religion is the only right one; for others also

That is plain arrogance. As per definition. As long as they are not Omniscient they can't claim such a thing

That is not about debating. That is a fact.

Black is black, you can keep on saying it is white
But who you try to fool? Not me.

Note: If they say "My way is the highway for me; I won't say a thing", just be aware it's just an opinion.

You are being just as dogmatic as any religious person I've ever talked to. You are claiming that your way is the highway. What's worse is you don't realize it.

 

[stvdv]

Again, I did not say it was

My reply was to another and that all Faiths in some way have an aim to teach others. I never mentioned 'evangelizing'.

Regards Tony

Your reply was a direct reply to Columbus saying: "this being irritatingly proselytizing"
And you reply thus:
"I see all Major Faiths have that requirement as well. They all instruct the believer to spread the elixer."

This clearly talks about evangelizing (spreading the elixer).
You can change the word (not calling it evangelizing), but you can't fool me by that
Especially with your added line:
"After all, if it is the Truth, how else can it be known, if it is not shared?"
That is exactly the line many Christians use, when evangelizing

And for your information, in my faith we do NOT have this "spreading the elixer = evangelizing". The opposite, my Master told me to "Not do that".
Obvious it is in your religion, as you even see it now in all Major religions, but don't superimpose this on my religion, because it is not.

And do NOT say: Guru imparts spiritual truth ... and stretching it on as "spreading the elixer" as in the above "spreading the elixer" being evangelizing". Those 2 are totally unrelated, impossible to compare, examples. As @Vinayaka clearly explained ... students come to the teacher. And evangelists come to the people.

Spoiler: The 2 related quotes in the spoiler

Ummm.....
That's more irritatingly proselytizing than anything I've noticed you posting before.

It's not the "I believe..." part. It's the "asked of us in Falun Gong" part.

I'm interested in what an individual believes. Telling me what their religious organization tells them to tell me is the kind of proselytizing I don't like, and I'm good with the staff reining that in.

But that's just me. I've got a pretty thick shell. I'm a gay married man living in conservative Jesustan, I'm accustomed to not noticing proselytizing.
Tom

I see all Major Faiths have that requirement as well. They all instruct the believer to spread the elixer. After all, if it is the Truth, how else can it be known, if it is not shared?

I also see that they all also offer a balance in doing that and in he Quran the given balance is, 'There is no compulsion in Religion'.

The Bible says to walk away if there is no one that wants to hear and to me that is when proselytizing would start.

On RF I see if one participated in an OP and asked question or made reply then it can not be applied.

If someone replied not interested and the poster went further, then line is crossed.

Hope you are well Tom.

Regards Tony

 

[stvdv]

Again, I did not say it was

My reply was to another and that all Faiths in some way have an aim to teach others. I never mentioned 'evangelizing'.

I am curious how you really think about evangelizing

Maybe you did not mean to imply evangelizing. That can be. But how you worded it, clearly implies evangelizing to me (as I explained in my previous reply), or my English must be totally off today. But if you say I did not meant evangelizing, I accept that. You know best what you meant.

But still I like to know how people really think, just being straightforward.

It can be solved and made clear easily by a few simple questions:
1) Do you believe that all Major Religions have it in them to provide the Highest Truth to the Seeker?
2) Do you believe that others need not follow Bahai, and still gain the Highest Truth?
3) If above 2 are true, there is no need to share your elixer as they have their elixer (see note)

Note: Especially if we consider RF rule "do not proselytize others away from their (non) Faith"

 

[stvdv]

You are being just as dogmatic as any religious person I've ever talked to. You are claiming that your way is the highway. What's worse is you don't realize it.

No, you totally miss the point I am making:

The difference is, that I always say "in my humble opinion", when I share my view
Those who "claim: My way is the highway, and also for you"

They do not even bother about "In my humble opinion"
They just make a claim, and they make it about ME even

Do you not see the difference here? You can not compare these two, and equal them

It seems that you do not realize it

Even RF has a specific Rule taking care of this telling "you should never claim my way is the highway, and also for others"

And you attack me, that I am wrong in following the rules on RF
I don't claim my way is the highway. I just tell "I decide my way, you stick to your way"
If you can't see the difference here, then I am done talking

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am curious how you really think about evangelizing

Maybe you did not mean to imply evangelizing. That can be. But how you worded it, clearly implies evangelizing to me (as I explained in my previous reply), or my English must be totally off today. But if you say I did not meant evangelizing, I accept that. You know best what you meant.

But still I like to know how people really think, just being straightforward.

It can be solved and made clear easily by a few simple questions:
1) Do you believe that all Major Religions have it in them to provide the Highest Truth to the Seeker?
2) Do you believe that others need not follow Bahai, and still gain the Highest Truth?
3) If above 2 are true, there is no need to share your elixer as they have their elixer (see note)

Note: Especially if we consider RF rule "do not proselytize others away from their (non) Faith"

1) I see we all have the ability to find the Truth, relative to the age we live in, that is given in all the Religions from God.
2) I see we need to find our true selves and that will answer the question for each of us.
3) The only way we can find that potential, what makes us more than animal, is education. If the above is true, we need to be educated as to how to find it all within our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Left Coast]

No, you totally miss the point I am making:

The difference is, that I always say "in my humble opinion", when I share my view
Those who "claim: My way is the highway, and also for you"

They do not even bother about "In my humble opinion"
They just make a claim, and they make it about ME even

Do you not see the difference here? You can not compare these two, and equal them

It seems that you do not realize it

Even RF has a specific Rule taking care of this telling "you should never claim my way is the highway, and also for others"

And you attack me, that I am wrong in following the rules on RF
I don't claim my way is the highway. I just tell "I decide my way, you stick to your way"
If you can't see the difference here, then I am done talking

You have an opinion about what the truth is and is not, and what people should and should not do, and you are trying to convince someone else that you are right. The fact that you soften it by saying "in my humble opinion" makes it more polite, but it does not change the substance of what you are doing.

That's the point.

 

[stvdv]

You have an opinion about what the truth is and is not, and what people should and should not do, and you are trying to convince someone else that you are right. The fact that you soften it by saying "in my humble opinion" makes it more polite, but it does not change the substance of what you are doing.

That's the point.

1) No, I do not know what the Truth is
2) No, I do not have an opinion about what the Truth is (follows 1)
3) No, I do not have an opinion on what other people should or should not do (as long as they follow RF Rules)
4) I just claimed that others should follow RF Rules when being on RF. This implies that the claim "my way is the highway for all" is 'wrong' to use on RF. That is all I said all the time. This has nothing to do with me debating on Truth or me trying to impose my view on others. It's just applying RF Rules.

Within RF Rules:
I decide what is good for me
I let others decide what is good for them

Using IMHO when sharing my view is what the RF Rules tell us to do. I think these Rules are excellent, hence I love to apply them.