Question regarding free will

[Falvlun]

I don't think Popper was aware of the concept. He considered himself a indeterminist. I think he might have agreed with compatibilism though.

I do feel there is a sort of flexibility to reality when it comes to humans. I believe human can stretch the boundaries of reality. I don't think anyone knows how far yet.

World 1 is the physical world. This would function according to the deterministic model.

World 2 is the mental world. Anything that can be imagined by man. Monsters, ghosts, gods. Where concepts exist.

World 3 is the world of objective knowledge. Engineering, math, mechanics, physics etc.

World 3 is what allows man to alter world 1 the physical world.

World 2 influences world 3, world 1 influences world 2.

Spirituality is the belief that world 2 can influence world 1. Seems fairly obvious to me that it can't. Not directly.

Knowledge, world 3, allows us to alter reality.

How does any of this relate to free will?

 

[Nakosis]

How does any of this relate to free will?

It allows humans to alter an otherwise deterministic universe. The 2nd world, the world of imagination, ideas, concepts are not directly caused by the physical world. Human will/desire is the cause of this 2nd world. The 3rd world, the world of knowledge allows man to make an impact on the 1st, physical world.

 

[Falvlun]

It allows humans to alter an otherwise deterministic universe. The 2nd world, the world of imagination, ideas, concepts are not directly caused by the physical world. Human will/desire is the cause of this 2nd world. The 3rd world, the world of knowledge allows man to make an impact on the 1st, physical world.

I think I disagree with the whole concept. The separation seems arbitrary to me, and I don't see why all the worlds wouldn't influence each other.

I also don't think it's a great argument for free will.

The determinist will just say that human will/desire is caused by World 1, and therefore anything that comes from it in World 2 is also caused.

 

[Nakosis]

I think I disagree with the whole concept. The separation seems arbitrary to me, and I don't see why all the worlds wouldn't influence each other.

I also don't think it's a great argument for free will.

The determinist will just say that human will/desire is caused by World 1, and therefore anything that comes from it in World 2 is also caused.

It's philosophical, so what can be proven to silence the free will deniers?

It is similar to my own theories but defined better, so I like it. Something to mentally masticate.

 

[Vaderecta]

It is said by scientific materialists that we have no free will and that we are biological machines. Our brains are machines that make us move and perform actions. But if we do have a soul, then does the soul itself have free will? Or is it also a machine? If you think about it, how can free will even exist? Wouldn't everything have to be machines? Wouldn't free will just be another way of saying we are machines?

We are all products of our DNA. That is how we all we got here.

 

[Falvlun]

It's philosophical, so what can be proven to silence the free will deniers?

I don't think it can be proven either way. Frankly, that's the push back that needs to happen: determinism has NOT been proven even though determinists act like it has.

And I think our personal experience of choice is crucial evidence for free will that often gets ignored.

It is similar to my own theories but defined better, so I like it. Something to mentally masticate.

Thanks for sharing it!

 

[Polymath257]

Part of the problem is deciding what it means to have 'free will'. Another part seems to be thinking that you and your personality are different than the processes happening in the brain and body.

So, when 'I' make a decision, what is actually going on? I am processing the information I have, including my desires and values, and determining what it is I want to do. If 'I' am the one that primarily makes this determination, then 'I' have free will.

But, that is exactly what happens: the relevant processing to determine what I will do happens in *my* brain. It isn't determined by an 'outside force', but the relevant processes happen *in me*. Furthermore, those processes are not 'pre-determined' in the sense that an outside observer previous to the decision would be able to determine what the decision will be (at least, not always). The level of description that would be required to 'calculate' the decision based on *all* the inputs would be immense; even leaving out a few of the inputs would potentially lead to a different decision.

Hence, I am the one making the decision and that decision is not pre-detemined in any reasonable sense. So there is free will.

 

[MonkeyFire]

What I know is that Lucifer rebeled when God gave free will, as Knowledge, the angel of light. Since then he has been serving in his alternate role as objective all things, while 1/3 fallen of what is in Heaven is fallen, and the animal kingdom and man kind are totally lossed. All isn't tainted because of existence of some bad things, but not all things can go to Heaven, theoretically. In the future you find out that Jesus can send hell to nil as the Passive messiah leaving All perfect in Heaven.