-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Question for those who believe in Avatars
- Thread starter Philomath
- Start date
Buddha was born in Nepal
It's very possible and probable that the avatars appeared elsewhere. But we can only speculate about which deities in other cultures are real avatars and which are not.
Acintya_Ash
Bhakta
Hare Krishna!
Imagine Obama is going to visit India. what do you think where will he going to stay, what kind of people he going to meet? of course He is surely not gonna visit yours or mine or any common people house. He will definitely come where arrangement has been made for his stay ( ex. accommodation from Govt of India) and will meet people who are on that level ( ex. PM, FM of India) who can properly welcome him and discuss on topic relevant for both parties. Similarly God always choose India (that time Bharata varsa) because people in that piece of land were practicing Vedic culture and they were knower of Vedas and characteristics of God . They were well acquainted in dealing with him and Lord also knew that they can understand Lord's activity and instruction. Except India other land at that time was inhabitant of mlecchas, yavanas, hunas who had no knowledge of Vedas and no intellect to recognize God and what to speak of understanding and executing his instruction.
This was the reason supreme Lord always chooses to incarnate in Bharata varsa because people knew and practicing in and out about God.
Fireside_Hindu
Jai Lakshmi Maa
I don't believe in Avatars in the sense that many do (since we all hold the spark of the divine are we not all avatars?) but to answer your question with my two cents:
I think "avatar' was just the way the cultures of Bharat spoke about God's visitation to earth. I'm sure God's avatar came (and comes) to other places and cultures, but people there don't have the same theological understanding of that experience. For example, Zeus incarnated all the time for the Greeks - as a swan or bull etc. And Jesus is God incarnate on earth for many Christians.
I think it's mostly semantics.
:camp:
I think "avatar' was just the way the cultures of Bharat spoke about God's visitation to earth. I'm sure God's avatar came (and comes) to other places and cultures, but people there don't have the same theological understanding of that experience. For example, Zeus incarnated all the time for the Greeks - as a swan or bull etc. And Jesus is God incarnate on earth for many Christians.
I think it's mostly semantics.
:camp:
I don't really believe in Avatars per se, but like others have said, maybe God sent messengers and incarnations to different cultures across different periods of history? Not just in India.
To say or believe that God can or cannot do this or that, and do it or not do it here or there is the height of human hubris. God could be somewhere in Wyoming but not everyone needs to know it or believe it. I do not believe India has a monopoly on God's comings and goings or dharma. To believe it does is ethnocentricity at its finest. To see God in the Hindu or Indian way is Hindu... but God is not Hindu, that's how he appears to Hindus. "Everyone sees God in their own way".
Last edited:
I think India (for whatever reasons in the deep past) has concerned itself more with the internal world than the external world (generally speaking). Thus by greater effort it has been greater rewarded by higher beings with sages and avatars. Thus India has been the cutting edge of spiritual knowledge for the world. Other countries got ahead of India on material developments. We need both but what Indians have given to the world is more valuable for mental peace and happiness. Now that much of the western world has enough material prosperity it is looking more and more to the east for spiritual happiness.
There are great saints and teachers (like Jesus) from outside India but not full avatars.
Last edited:
Don't you think it is reasonable to assume that the concept of Avatara is sufficiently tied to Hinduism so that while its causes would definitely manifest elsewhere to fulfill similar roles, they would not necessarily be readily recognizable as avatara?
Also, I think we'd do well to keep in mind the true meaning of the word avatar:
Why Shiva doesn't have avatars. This part is interesting, and something I did not know.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Random but also interesting is the following: Mimamsaka-s don't believe in avatars. The concept is never acknowledged as valid since the existence of an Absolute, as per the Mimamsaka-s, is unsubstantiated. In terms of Astika orientation, avatars are largely found, if not only found in, among Vaishnava circles. If my memory serves me correctly, Samkhya-s also didn't believe in avatars---let alone an Absolute principle. And Lokayata, whose members identified themselves en masse as being of the in-group, outright denied both as well.
Yeah, I kind of always thought that too. What I didn't know, and the part I thought is interesting is why Shiva doesn't take avatars... not having been "born". I didn't know that the requirements for being an avatara were being born from a womb. Something new every day to learn.
Poeticus
| abhyAvartin |
Yeah, I kind of always thought that too. What I didn't know, and the part I thought is interesting is why Shiva doesn't take avatars... not having been "born". I didn't know that the requirements for being an avatara were being born from a womb. Something new every day to learn.
... well Mahadeva is beginning-less, and has made Death his plaything.
The dude practically uses Death as if it were a pool stick for a game of billiards, or keys to a car; or like how a tennis ball is smashed back and forth during an intense Serena and Venus showdown.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
One can have 'manasa putra' (mind son), like Sanat Kumaras and Narada are of Brahma. Hanuman is taken by many as 'manas putra' of Shiva. Shiva had short-term avataras like Kirata in Kirata-Arjuniya. Many people take Sankara to be an avatara of Shiva. But I do agree, for the majority, Shiva is without avataras. 'Death his plaything', that is why 'Mahākāla' and 'Kāla Bhairava'.
Last edited:
Devatas, Devi, Suras, Rakshasas, the 33 Shree Devas are coming and going on different planets, Lokas, universes, much less just earth or India. Indra lives in Indra Loka, not India or Bharat. But naturally as we look back in time regarding Bhumi Earth, we find more humans in India then and, oh less in Europe. No one even lived on North America at the time Ravana took the throne from his brother Kubera and became the King of the Rakshasas and over Lanka. The continents were not even the same shape, the stars were in a different location. The entire earth was lifted up by Varaha. Not just one place.
The first civilized City of all was Kashi in India, humans took the way of modern man and grew crops and the temples for All the Guds were here, since so many things started in India from a human perspective of course there are many tirthas back to hoary times.
When the reason for it comes, They will come to New York City. But there are already tirthas appearing in other places. For example on Kauai. Swayambhus will be reaveled. But because of the path of time, it goes back to the First Places.
But humans will go into space. The Ramayana will go with them.
The first civilized City of all was Kashi in India, humans took the way of modern man and grew crops and the temples for All the Guds were here, since so many things started in India from a human perspective of course there are many tirthas back to hoary times.
When the reason for it comes, They will come to New York City. But there are already tirthas appearing in other places. For example on Kauai. Swayambhus will be reaveled. But because of the path of time, it goes back to the First Places.
But humans will go into space. The Ramayana will go with them.
Last edited:
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
And in England, Mauritius, Fiji, Guyana, Trinidad. So, perhaps in the next 'manavantara'; not very far off, just about 427,000 years. Sanatan Dharma Ki Jai, Hindu Dharma Ki Jai. Hare Krishna, Namah Shivaya.