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Question for the 'non-bible alone' Christians

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Gharib, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. Perfect Circle

    Perfect Circle Just Browsing

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    Hmm... I'll have to check into that. Thanks Soj!:D
     
  2. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Actually, most Christians don't fall into that category. I don't, and I'm a Latter-day Saint. Catholics don't either. Many Protestants will claim to be (particularly the more conservative ones) but when it gets down to it, not all of their beliefs can be supported by an appeal to the Bible as the only source of truth. For instance, most of them would describe God according to what the Nicene and Athanasian Creeds say He is, even though they might insist that they do not rely on any creeds.
     
  3. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    I guess it depends on what you mean by "bible alone."

    Can you supply a definition we can work with?
     
  4. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    catholics are also kind of different to the christians in terms of belief. is that right? from what i have heard, they consider mary as part of the trinity, don't know how accurate that is though.

    as for the apostles of jesus, who does that reffer to, is it his 12 friends that he had before his sopposed crusifiction as the christians/catholics believe? or is that John, Paul, Mathew etc. the men who said that jesus had appeared to them?
     
  5. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

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    secret jesus 1

    After a long period of study by myself and others it has been discovered that the entire Gospel of Thomas can be imbedded into certain strings of verses from other Gospels and
    Epistles, using the Gospel of Matthew as the main guide.
    This provides Thomas with a timeline it does not have by itself.


    I am one of the people who love the Gospel of Thomas of and by itself. It is my desire to discover by combining these texts, rather than create from or of them.

    The following is the combination of the Gospel of Thomas, into the Gospel of Matthew, with insertions from the Gospel of Mary, the Epistle of James, Peter, and the Gospels of
    Luke, Phillip, John and Mark. Insertions occur in different ways. This has been done with care as not to distort from the intended obvious meanings, and central themes of the
    combinations of strings, all from Apostles...


    “These are the words that Jesus said...”
    Jesus, His Disciples, and John The Baptist


    1.
    (Thomas 4.) "A person old in days will not hesitate to ask a child of seven days about the Place of Life, and he will live ! For many who are first will become last, and they
    will become one and the same."


    (Matthew 11-1. And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying,


    (Matthew 11-2. Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.


    (Matthew 11-3. For this is he that was spoken of through Isaiah the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make ye ready the way of the Lord,
    make his paths straight.

    (Matthew 11-4. Now John himself had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his food was locusts and wild honey.


    (Matthew 11-5. Then went out unto him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about the Jordan;


    (Matthew 11-6. and they were baptized of him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.


    (Thomas 46.) "Among those born of women, from Adam until John the Baptist, there is none greater than John the Baptist that his eyes should not be lowered before him.

    Yet I have said, that if one of You becomes like a child he will know the Kingdom and be higher than John."
     
  6. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

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    The following is fromt he Gospel of Thomas (from commentary called the Gospel of Gnosis); here we actually see something that could be considered Islamic in its sentiment, as well as many other "religions"

    (13)


    Jesus said to his disciples,
    "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."
    Simon Peter said to him,



    "You are like a righteous angel."
    Matthew said to him,



    "You are like a wise philosopher."
    Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is



    wholly incapable of saying whom you are like."
    Jesus said, "I am not your master.
    Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated
    from the bubbling spring which I have measured out."
    And he took him and withdrew and told him three things. When Thomas returned to his companions, they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"
    Thomas said to them,
    "If I tell you one of the things which he told me,
    you will pick up stones and throw them at me;

    a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up."



     
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

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    It's not accurate at all. Catholics believe that the Trinity consists of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (also called the Holy Ghost). Catholics hold Mary in very high regard and think that she had a special, unique role, but they don't consider her to be God or part of the Trinity.

    That seems like a good way of putting it. There are two terms that are used in the Bible for followers of Jesus: "disciple", which is used for all of Jesus' followers, and "apostle", which is used for the 12 disciples who were closest to Jesus.
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Actually, you did. Here it is:
    "Bible-alone" is sola scriptura, to which neither the RCs, the Orthodox, nor the Anglicans (comprising the majority of Xy) subscribe. By listing the "non-Bible-alone Christians," as "negative Christians," you do imply those three groups, as well as others, and implicate them as "negative." That constitutes a judgment on your part, which violates your own #3 in your criteria of "negative Christians."

    Christ's statement on judgment wasn't directed toward religious groups. It was directed toward an individual standard of ethical behavior.
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    First of all, Catholics are Christian. In fact, they make up the majority of Christianity. Mary is considered to be Theotokos, but not part of the Trinity. Mary is not God.

    "Apostle" merely means "one who is sent out." Generally, the Twelve are considered to be apostles, because Jesus sent them out, according to the gospels. Upon Jesus' crucifixion, those twelve special apostles passed the authority Jesus had given them to their successors.
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Actually, that's only partially correct. Most writing was done on wax tablets. All common writing was on that medium. Official stuff was written on papyrus and royal stuff was written on an early form of parchment. The gospel accounts (if they were written that early), would not have been considered "important" enough for anything other than wax.
     
  11. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    obeying only what the bible says and nothing else.
     
  12. Mr Cheese

    Mr Cheese Well-Known Member

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    A religion is more than it's book....
    Even Islam is more than "just and only" the Qu'ran

    so frankly I think this thread is a bit silly
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    That's not what the Bible is "for."
     
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  14. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    yes islam is more than just the quran.

    and why is this thread silly? i never thought that christians had any other kind of scripture other than the bible. so when i was told by someone that he is not a bible alone christians, i didn't know what he meant. now i'm aking about it. is it silly to ask when you don't know no matter how silly it may seem to some?
     
  15. Kathryn

    Kathryn Most Spoiled Woman Ever

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    I don't know many Christians who believe that only the bible contains the truth. I think more of them believe that the bible is all true, but that other truth exists outside the bible.
     
  16. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

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    ok thank you.
     
  17. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    Your assumption is wrong. "Bible alone" Christians are a minority. Sola scriptura was a handy tool the Protestant Reformers used to shake off papal domination, but it doesn't actually make any sense at all.
     
  18. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    Exactly. Which means it disproves itself. It's a logical impossibility. I am going to adopt you as my backup Katzpur. If Katzpur is for any reason unable to fulfill her duties ...
     
  19. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    From the Orthodox point of view, Thomas is clearly outside the canon, but being outside the canon isn't in itself that serious. It's the fact that it's not a part of the lively tradition. If it had been important, our holy fathers would have discussed it. :shrug:
     
  20. Smoke

    Smoke Done here.

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    You've got to read up on the Lutherans. They can get into serious, angry arguments over whether they accept the Book of Concord "insofar as" it conforms to scripture or "because" it conforms to scripture.
     
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