Question for Non-Dualist

[Philomath]

What exactly are you worshiping if you are essentially one with God?

 

[Maya3]

What exactly are you worshiping if you are essentially one with God?

The Self.

Maya

 

[Philomath]

The Self.

Maya

So you're basically just worshiping yourself?

 

[Maya3]

That is the goal of your practice to understand that you are not separate from God.

Tat Tvam Asi, Though are That.

Maya

 

[LuisDantas]

As I understand it, Advaita is all about celebrating that we can make a constructive difference and rejoicing in it.

 

[punkdbass]

Maya3 hit the nail on the head of this one. If by "worship" you mean to show respect, awe, wonder, reverence, compassion; then I worship the Self/Brahman - the Transcendent Fullness of Being and life, Pure Is-ness. The Pure, rich, infinitely full "Reality" - which is completely empty of all limiting mental constructs we try to place upon it. I worship "Om." One day, all beings will realize that they are completely one with Om, in no way separate.

As I understand it, Advaita is all about celebrating that we can make a constructive difference and rejoicing in it.

Or as Contemplative Cat said in a different thread, there is no inherent meaning to life.. so why not make life beautiful?

 

[Philomath]

Ok so what about prayer, puja and things of that nature? Are you just doing all that to yourself?

 

[punkdbass]

Ok so what about prayer, puja and things of that nature? Are you just doing all that to yourself?

The Upanishads and Bhagavad Gita are crystal clear that on a conventional/pragmatic level, there is a difference between one's self(ego, the finite "idea"/mental construct you have of yourself) and one's true essence: the Self. I worship the Self, not the self. I don't want to further confuse you, but I must add that technically, once you move beyond the conventional/pragmatic level to the Absolute level of Reality - things how they actually are, even the "self" and "Self" are one. Anything imaginable, including the finite "self"/ego plays it's part in Brahman.

But for the sake of simplicity and communication, I worship the Self/Brahman, not the self.

 

[LuisDantas]

Ok so what about prayer, puja and things of that nature? Are you just doing all that to yourself?

I can't speak for Hindus, but many (most?) Buddhists have just that understanding, yes.

 

[George-ananda]

What exactly are you worshiping if you are essentially one with God?

The word worshiping stops making sense and the correct goal becomes Self-Realization.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

Bhagavad hits teaches that for a beginner the path is work for the man in yoga stillness is the way.

You do not exist, it is God that exists. By worship we submit the ego to God then it disappears. Then we can just be Brahman.

 

[Valjean]

^^ What George says.

Reality is different in different levels of consciousness. Gods may exist in some and not others.

Both dualists and non-dualists must live in the world they perceive. I may believe, intellectually, that that bear outside my tent is an illusion, but as long as I'm actually perceiving it, it's part of my subjective reality and is best treated as such.

Some non-dualists do use Gods, but they know, intellectually, that these Gods are they're own creations, imagined as meditative focal points.
Gods -- like tea kettles, are real if you choose to realize them, but, like tea kettles, they're maya -- you're dreaming them.

Hindus create and use Gods as religious aids. Once cosmic consciousness is achieved, however, they've done their job and are discarded.

 

[punkdbass]

^^ What George says.

Reality is different in different levels of consciousness. Gods may exist in some and not others.

Both dualists and non-dualists must live in the world they perceive. I may believe, intellectually, that that bear outside my tent is an illusion, but as long as I'm actually perceiving it, it's part of my subjective reality and is best treated as such.

Some non-dualists do use Gods, but they know, intellectually, that these Gods are they're own creations, imagined as meditative focal points.
Gods -- like tea kettles, are real if you choose to realize them, but, like tea kettles, they're maya -- you're dreaming them.

Hindus create and use Gods as religious aids. Once cosmic consciousness is achieved, however, they've done their job and are discarded.

Well said. This is currently how I view the Hindu Deities; however I still remain agnostic/open minded on the subject. Although what you said is how I currently view the deities, my mind is open to the possibility of a Creator... but honestly I'm not sure what would have to happen to convince me said Creator is real.

 

[Philomath]

Thanks for the answers. So prayer and etc are just a phase you go through? Once you've become Self-Realized is there need to do them anymore?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What exactly are you worshiping if you are essentially one with God?

There are no Gods or Goddesses, there is Brahman and I am that (Aham Brahmasmi, Ayamatma Brahmha). Therefore, there is nothing to worship. (But, of course, this does not suit the majority, so they imagine Gods and Goddesses and worship them, mostly out of selfishness. Not just Hindus, but Christians and Muslims too. Even Buddhists worship the Buddha or Bodhisattvas).

.. but honestly I'm not sure what would have to happen to convince me said Creator is real.

Check carefully. Have you established creation so as to need a creator?

 

[punkdbass]

There are no Gods or Goddesses, there is Brahman and I am that (Aham Brahmasmi, Ayamatma Brahmha). Therefore, there is nothing to worship. (But, of course, this does not suit the majority, so they imagine Gods and Goddesses and worship them, mostly out of selfishness. Not just Hindus, but Christians and Muslims too. Even Buddhists worship the Buddha or Bodhisattvas).

Be careful here.. I'm not sure where you are from(not being sarcastic here lol) but in the United States, "theistic God language" is something everyone is exposed to at a young age (a significant amount of kids in my generation went to "Sunday School"), it very much influenced our society but that is starting to change. The point being that I think it's a bit rash to say people "mostly" worship God out of selfishness - from a purely logical standpoint it seems obvious to me that the main driving reason for why people continue to worship God is because that's how they were raised - i.e. society conditioned them to worship God. This is starting to change a lot as families are becoming more secular but you get the point.

Thanks for the answers. So prayer and etc are just a phase you go through? Once you've become Self-Realized is there need to do them anymore?

I don't know.. I think we're making too many generalizations in this thread. You got some decent answers from people from non-dual perspectives but it's important to note that the 3 main schools of Vedanta are not supposed to be contradictory.. People can most definitely become liberated, or at least experience regular love and bliss, in either of the 3 paths.. many of whom will continue to pray and worship deities.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. I'm not sure where you are from ..

I come from Atheism and a literal sort of variety of Advaita.

 

[Valjean]

Well said. This is currently how I view the Hindu Deities; however I still remain agnostic/open minded on the subject. Although what you said is how I currently view the deities, my mind is open to the possibility of a Creator... but honestly I'm not sure what would have to happen to convince me said Creator is real.

Doesn't 'creation' presuppose time?

 

[YmirGF]

Thanks for the answers. So prayer and etc are just a phase you go through? Once you've become Self-Realized is there need to do them anymore?

There's no real need to do them in the first place, let alone after self-realization dawns... Prayer is based more on psychological needs than anything else largely because the individual senses a separation from the object of devotion. Thee, not me. Then again, the "me" side of the equation isn't near as entertaining as the "what". Who you are isn't as interesting as what you are.

 

[Elector]

There are no Gods or Goddesses, there is Brahman and I am that (Aham Brahmasmi, Ayamatma Brahmha). Therefore, there is nothing to worship. (But, of course, this does not suit the majority, so they imagine Gods and Goddesses and worship them, mostly out of selfishness. Not just Hindus, but Christians and Muslims too. Even Buddhists worship the Buddha or Bodhisattvas)

This is actually very ironic considering the fact that you distort Advaita Vedanta to suit your own selfish atheistic/materialistic mentality, and then you brand most of earth's population as superstitious and "selfish" because they worship God/gods (and follow the scriptures) instead of pursuing selfish desires - unlike (most) atheists.