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Question for liberals about why they care about abortion

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
It's a real shame that this issue is politicized. One only needs to look at the hatred this wedge issue propagates to see the great harm politicizing this issue causes.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
15. "For me, it was the hypocrisy. The end goal for pro-life proponents seems to be only for the baby to be born. But after the child is born, these same people refuse to support social assistance or give help to the women unable to financially and emotionally support their children. How is that a 'better' life for the child? If pro-life supporters truly want to help unborn children, they need to support that child's ENTIRE life, not just the one pre-birth."

This one. It's not pro-life but anti-abortion. For those that don't like abortion, first fix the system to where we have universal health care rather than the broken system we have now. Then give women a real choice including financial aid and stability where necessary, easy adoption and all the rest.

Then let's add universal birth control availability

In other words, let those who are against a woman's right to choose start by implementing the Catholic position which goes way beyond pregnancy.

After all of that, the stories in that article were about real humans making hard decisions. Until the fetus is viable (a moving target), choice should be i the woman's hands.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Why do you care about it? Is it one of the reasons people gave in this buzzfeed article? Do you have reservations about abortions or empathize with the pro life position at all?

26 People Told Us Why They Changed From Anti-Abortion To Pro-Choice, And You Should Read This No Matter What You Believe

What part of the world are you from, and what do you think of the intense political opposition over this issue?

I grew up very conservative and an Evangelical Christian in California. Even as I became more liberal in my young adulthood, abortion was probably the issue that it took me the longest to change my mind about. Abortion is the central political issue that unites conservative Christians, even more so than LGBTQ issues. We had pro-life speakers in my church who would be invited once or twice a year to preach to us about why we should be against abortion, give us talking points, etc.

What finally changed my mind was hearing an argument from bodily autonomy and the example of the dying violinist from Judith Jarvis Thompson. I realized how absurd it is to insist that women have their bodies used against their will to keep someone else alive, when we wouldn't require that of anyone else. That example changed my thinking.
 

JIMMY12345

Active Member
Why do you care about it? Is it one of the reasons people gave in this buzzfeed article? Do you have reservations about abortions or empathize with the pro life position at all?

26 People Told Us Why They Changed From Anti-Abortion To Pro-Choice, And You Should Read This No Matter What You Believe

What part of the world are you from, and what do you think of the intense political opposition over this issue?
Scientifically as soon as fertilisation is completed. Life is started. Discussions on how soon life stars are superfluous. It is not flipping a coin and allocating another a number of weeks. The foetus is alive and has clear legal and moral ethical rights. One of these is the right to life.

Next is quality of life. Lots of Couples are childless and would love to adopt. Anti Abortion campaigners would do well to campaign on this point. Also there is a moral majority who are opposed to giving single Mothers decent council housing or financial benefits. The Anti Abortionists should size their placards and (gently) whack this moral majority on the head .They need to alter target of wrath, This is the crux of what potential Mothers worry about. We have a duty to ensure children have life. We have a duty to ensure they have a happy good quality life. This means good schools. Three meals a day nice housing and lots of love. For growing kids, A bad life is no life.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Scientifically as soon as fertilisation is completed. Life is started.
That is actually a unique perspective, because scientifically the sperm and egg are already alive. They die if they don't combine, but they are alive. Scientifically speaking, life is a continuum; and we are all colonies of cells. Each cell in a human can become an entire human, containing all of the information needed. Your trillions of cells represent trillions of potential humans, and you shed them so quickly that you are effectively aborting millions or billions of potential offspring daily. Scientifically.

I think this is about pain and love and about compassion and vision and hope. Its not about cells. I grow more cells in a day than I can count, and I kill just as many.

Discussions on how soon life stars are superfluous. It is not flipping a coin and allocating another a number of weeks. The foetus is alive and has clear legal and moral ethical rights. One of these is the right to life.
Rights in the USA are recognized to have derived from an authority above the government and above the people. They are 'Natural', of God not of any human organization, authority or institution. Therefore the question of whether someone has a natural right depends upon the testimony of nature.

A cell does not have all rights, and this should be obvious. It has to be protected, but its situation is precarious from the beginning. From the beginning only the woman has control of it -- not the man. Many fertilized eggs fail. God does not support them. Therefore they do not have a right to live. They may be privileged to become a live, but rights do not come into it. Its just like you and I have no right to be alive. We only have a right not to be killed. We don't have a right to be kept alive. This is only practical, and if you are in trouble and someone doesn't save you they have not broken the law. No one has to help you, because you don't have the right to be helped. It could never work that way. Rights don't work like that. If you try to enforce laws that make people be required to help, those laws break down. That they break down shows that there is no such right to be kept alive.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Next is quality of life. Lots of Couples are childless and would love to adopt. Anti Abortion campaigners would do well to campaign on this point.
Most people refuse to adopt who hold the position that abortion is wrong. Often they have large families, too. Let them campaign on that point.

My own parents had several children but would never consider adopting, because women love having babies. Babies are a drug. Very few of those who say they feel strongly that abortion is wrong will trouble themselves to take care of a single orphan. This is not a joke, nor a trick. It is the situation. They encourage abortions, and they encourage homelessness by their neglect, and this amounts to hypocrisy.

Does it excuse abortion? No. Not it does not excuse abortion, and I am not arguing that abortion is always justified. I argue that it is and must be legal but must be discouraged through community support and adoption. That is the only way, the only reasonable way, to discourage abortion.

What it means is that most of the abortion marches are misguided and are nothing but political puppets on strings. The same people who shout against abortion support more abortions. They simply want to judge and point fingers without reading about what really stops abortions: women's hearts.

Ask yourself if God put babies into women, then don't you think God has given women guardianship of the unborn? Now if there are decisions to be made about it who should be in charge of making those decisions? Men in suits in ivory towers or the women who God put in charge of the unborn?
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Also there is a moral majority who are opposed to giving single Mothers decent council housing or financial benefits. The Anti Abortionists should size their placards and (gently) whack this moral majority on the head .They need to alter target of wrath, This is the crux of what potential Mothers worry about. We have a duty to ensure children have life. We have a duty to ensure they have a happy good quality life. This means good schools. Three meals a day nice housing and lots of love. For growing kids, A bad life is no life.
Yes. That is what I am talking about.
 
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