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Question for jehovah's witness

F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
In Acts 23:6-9 it mentions angels and spirits back to back.What is the spirits it is talking about?Is spirit just another word for demon?:confused: At first i thought the word spirit stood for demon.But if it did why would the Pharisees want to talk to one?:confused:

Acts 23:6-9 King James Version (KJV)
6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

Here is all of the passages in case you want to read all of them.

The website i got this from is this one:

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 23:6-9 - King James Version
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
I already asked this in the forum called general forum.Because i like answers from a bunch of different viewpoints.:)
 
2

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Frank Goad said:
In Acts 23:6-9 it mentions angels and spirits back to back.What is the spirits it is talking about?Is spirit just another word for demon?:confused: At first i thought the word spirit stood for demon.But if it did why would the Pharisees want to talk to one?:confused:

Acts 23:6-9 King James Version (KJV)
6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

Here is all of the passages in case you want to read all of them.

The website i got this from is this one:

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 23:6-9 - King James Version
Click to expand...

Well, Acts is written by the supposed associate of Paul, Luke, who according to Luke 1:1-3 witnessed nothing, and just wrote stories from unidentified sources, probably, mostly from the Pharisee Paul. As Paul is apparently the prime false prophet of the false prophets of Matthew 7:15, and his spirit, would be that of a "demon", per Revelation 16:13-16, I would think Paul would be on speed dial with the devil/Satan, and his demons, as it was Satan who gave Paul his gift of a pain in the side, most likely in the form of an "unclean spirit"/demon. While Paul claims to be communicating with Yeshua, Paul's message, was that of the "serpent", which was "you surely you shall not die".
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
That isnt what it means.

The Pharisees agreed with the Christians, on a resurrection,

The saducees didn't. Saducees are sort of like atheistic, or such. Not same type of traditional belief.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Sorry @Frank Goad , I didn't get back with you (almost everything I found, was relating to explaining why Paul calling himself a Pharisee). But there was one event the Society related to it: Jesus' revelation to Paul at Acts of the Apostles 9:3-9. It certainly was a spiritual occurance, but wasn't angelic, was it?

The Pharisees were covering all options, as to how Paul knew of the Resurrection.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
In Acts 23:6-9 it mentions angels and spirits back to back.What is the spirits it is talking about?Is spirit just another word for demon?:confused: At first i thought the word spirit stood for demon.But if it did why would the Pharisees want to talk to one?:confused:

Acts 23:6-9 King James Version (KJV)
6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.

9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

Here is all of the passages in case you want to read all of them.

The website i got this from is this one:

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 23:6-9 - King James Version
Click to expand...
Some information from this source might be useful.
Sadducees - Livius

It appears to me that the Sadducees were more political than religious, and likely interpreted the Torah, in a more "worldly" way, similar to how, for example, some persons interpret Satan to be a representation of something, rather than a real person.
They may have applied this reasoning to all mention of non-physical.

Josephus said, "the behavior of the Sadducees towards another is in some degree wild, and their conversation with those that are of their own party is as barbarous as if they were strangers to them."

I really don't know much on this, other than what seems likely.
However, we have the Biblical record that tells us something about them.
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
The reason I got this question going around in my head was because of this:

Acts 23:6-9

"But perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!" And as he said this, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit; but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. And there arose a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, "We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"

  1. Sadducees deny angel & spirit but Paul & Pharisees accept them
    The word "spirit" refers to departed spirits of men. It cannot refer to God as a Spirit, for they believed God is a Spirit. The fact that "angel and spirit" are both listed together, proves that spirit refers to human departed spirits not the spirits of angels etc.
  2. Important to note that Sadducees are theologically identical to Jw's, Christadelphians, SDA's and H. W. Armstrong in their view of the nature of man. Paul, through the Holy Spirit refuted them and sided with the Pharisees!
  3. I got all of this from this website: Death is a departure to the spirit world, not extinction
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
I read stuff for and against the idea that the soul doesn't go out when you die.So sometimes i come across stuff like this.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
The reason I got this question going around in my head was because of this:

Acts 23:6-9

"But perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!" And as he said this, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit; but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. And there arose a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, "We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"

  1. Sadducees deny angel & spirit but Paul & Pharisees accept them
    The word "spirit" refers to departed spirits of men. It cannot refer to God as a Spirit, for they believed God is a Spirit. The fact that "angel and spirit" are both listed together, proves that spirit refers to human departed spirits not the spirits of angels etc.
  2. Important to note that Sadducees are theologically identical to Jw's, Christadelphians, SDA's and H. W. Armstrong in their view of the nature of man. Paul, through the Holy Spirit refuted them and sided with the Pharisees!
  3. I got all of this from this website: Death is a departure to the spirit world, not extinction
Click to expand...
Please, describe what a departed spirit is, and provide a scripture that fits your description.
 
F

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
Please, describe what a departed spirit is, and provide a scripture that fits your description.
Click to expand...

I think a departed spirit is like what it says in the kjv of the bible as a giving up of the ghost.Like in Luke 23:46.So basically i think departed spirits are ghosts.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Frank Goad said:
I think a departed spirit is like what it says in the kjv of the bible as a giving up of the ghost.Like in Luke 23:46.So basically i think departed spirits are ghosts.
Click to expand...
So a ghost to you is what... a spirit person, or what?

Notice that Jesus said there, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit"
What does that mean - into thy hands"
I'm reminded of Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.
What does that mean to you?

For me, it means one thing.
Jehovah is the source of life. He alone gives the spirit / force of life.
The following scriptures agree.

Genesis 2:7 And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.

Job 27:3, 4
3 As long as my breath is within me And spirit from God is in my nostrils,
4 My lips will not speak unrighteousness;

Job 34:14, 15
14 If he fixes his attention on them, If he gathers their spirit and breath to himself, 15 All humans would perish together, And mankind would return to the dust.

Psalm 104:29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust.

Isaiah 42:5 This is what the true God, Jehovah, says, The Creator of the heavens and the Grand One who stretched them out, The One who spread out the earth and its produce, The One who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk on it:

What do you say?
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Frank Goad said:
What gets to me is i believe when you die your soul ceases to exist.So i don't know what to make of this.

I go back and forth all the time.
Click to expand...

Why go back and forth? The Bible says that you "sleep".....is that such a bad thing? Isn't it better than observing what is happening to loved ones down here and not being able to stop bad things from happening to them?

You never go out of existence if God remembers you. You are guaranteed a resurrection....by the only person in the Universe who can give you back the breath (spirit) of life. You won't know anything, just as if you were asleep. You just wake up in paradise...

Where did Jesus say Lazarus was before he resurrected him?

John 11:11-14; 21-25....
"After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died". . . . . Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life".

Do you believe Jesus? If not, why not? Martha believed in "the resurrection on the last day"....in the future under the rulership of God's Kingdom when the general resurrection of the dead was to take place. (John 5:28-29) Jesus surprised her by calling Lazarus out of his tomb, right then and there. Where had he been? Why would Jesus pull him out of heaven, back to this life, only to die again later? How was that doing him any favors?

Do you know what Jesus did for Lazarus by raising him out of death? He changed his destiny. No one who died before Christ could go to heaven until Jesus gave up his life and opened the way.
According to the apostle Paul, no one was to go to heaven until Jesus returned to take them "home". All would 'sleep in death' until that time. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

Why is it so hard to imagine yourself sleeping and being woken up?

When you see "Rest In Peace" on a headstone...that is exactly what it means. When you awaken, it will be as if you closed your eyes only a moment ago, but you will awaken refreshed and ready for the real life...the one God intended for us at the beginning.
 
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