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Question for jehovah's witness

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Frank Goad, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    In Matthew 9:24 jesus says the dead girl is sleeping.This at first glance looks like soul sleep(is a jw idea that when you die you are gone mind body and soul.And get brought to life later.)

    But in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. V.16 And the dead in Christ will rise first.
     
  2. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Jesus’ words to his disciples about Lazarus...he likened death to sleep. — John 11:11-14.

    A sleep from which one can only be awakened, by the Resurrection. John 5:28-29...(from where are these dead ones coming? Heaven? A burning fiery place? No, Jesus said from their “memorial tombs”). Notice the verb tense...it’s at a future time.

    “Fell asleep”, or “fallen asleep”, are phrases used a few times by Bible writers, indicating death. — Acts of the Apostles 7:60; 2 Peter 3:4.
     
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  3. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    1 Thess. 4:14-18
    “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. Whether one believes this is the 2nd coming or the rapture, the point is made that there are those who come with Jesus to be united with their bodies. Since the dead rise first and those who are alive don’t receive a resurrection but a transformation. Vs.15 “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.” Where is Jesus coming from? Heaven. If Jesus is bringing some people with him and they don’t have resurrected bodies yet, doesn’t this mean they are immaterial spirits. What dead are rising? Certainly this are not those who are alive and remain. The dead are those who bodies are put to sleep. This is exactly what Paul explains in 1 Cor.15:52-54 “the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed (those who are still alive) previously Paul explains the body in vs.35-49 vs.42 so is the resurrection of the dead. The BODY is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.” So resurrection refers to the human body not the soul or spirit, it is the body that sleeps and will be resurrected. As we have seen our hope is to be immediately with the Lord, not wait for some undetermined future time.

    I read this about people who are asleep in christ.And it confused me more.Please help.


     
  4. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    John 11:11-14

    11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

    12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

    13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

    14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead

    Didn't jesus say the same thing about the dead girl in my first post?

    In Matthew 9:24 jesus says the dead girl is sleeping.This at first glance looks like soul sleep(is a jw idea that when you die you are gone mind body and soul.And get brought to life later.)

    But in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. V.16 And the dead in Christ will rise first.

    I am really confused.:(

     
  5. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Frank. We provided you information that answers the question about the soul, and resurrection. The information addresses these questions in the same way.
    According to the Bible, there is no such thing as a disembodied soul that lives outside the body.
    The dead will rise according to what the apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15. Those dead in Christ are the firstfruits mentioned in verses 20-23, and Revelation 14:1-5 regarding the 144,000.
    These are also mentioned in Revelation 20:6 - The second death has no authority over them. This is the first resurrection - to heaven, as kings and priest - heirs of the kingdom.

    The second resurrection involve those who died, but are not of the 144,000. Revelation 7:9-17. The Bible says they are unnumbered. So millions will be raised to life on the earth. Psalms 37:9-11; Revelation 21:1-5
     
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  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    1 Thessalonians 4:13 and on is all about the Resurrection...there is no new ‘doctrine’, ie., ‘rapture’, he mentions. Paul was simply saying that before Christ “comes”, ie., presence, “parousian” (1 Thessalonians 4:15 Greek Text Analysis), faithful ones who had died (like Stephen), will rise from sleep (be resurrected), but those who die during Christ’s presence will not have to sleep in death...when they die (during Christ’s presence), they will immediately be resurrected. “In the twinkling of an eye,” as Paul paralleled it at 1 Corinthians 15:50-53.
     
  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    We “speak in unity”! Gotta love it!
     
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  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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  10. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    What does the Bible say about soul sleep?

    Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

    Answer:
    “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

    Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

    Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.


    I got all of this from this website:

    What does the Bible say about soul sleep?

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  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that Jehovah's Witnesses believe in soul sleep, in the sense that seems to be described here.
    We do believe that death is likened, or compared to sleep, because there is a coming resurrection, where Jesus will "call the dead out of death, and the grave" - raise them up, or resurrect them.

    We however, do not believing that the soul exists as a form separated from the body, and dwells anywhere - either in heaven, or a fiery hell. The person is simply dead - not existing, except in God's "book of remembrance".

    So, the person that died, is only asleep in God's "mind", and they are thought of this way by those expecting to see them alive again.
    Acts 24:15 And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

    Since the person doesn't exist except in God's memory, God is the one that will make a body for them and give them the spirit, that makes them a living soul - that's in the case of those who will be raised to life on earth.
    John 5:28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice
    A living soul is a human person.

    Those raised to heaven do not need the spirit, or a physical body, they are made spirits.
    1 Corinthians 15:38 . . .but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and gives to each of the seeds its own body.

    Do you understand this?
     
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