Question for Gun Owners

[Truth in love]

Americans! Imagine America suddenly didn't exist. You can live in any country you choose, but it must be a country in which the general population do not have guns. How would this make you mostly feel?


1. Concerned that I could not own a gun for self defence.

2. Relieved that I am now living in a country where the general population do not own guns.

3. Something else...

Post at will...

I believe God inspired the Constitution. The right to bare arms along with freedom of worship are vital. Having lived in a place where the average person could not legally own a gun I can say it’s a very bad idea.

 

[Truth in love]

I don't know.

But I suspect that a strong social safety net is strongly correlated with social peace. I am spoiled, since I have a double Swiss/Swedish citizenship. Both very safe countries. The first country is socially strong because it is very rich, the second is socially strong because everyone pays 50% or more of their income as taxes. It looks like a lot, but you really need to worry about nothing, from the cradle to the grave.

Incidentally, I also have the impression that a strong social safety net correlates positively with lack of interest in religion. Those countries have, basically, no foxholes, and no need for them.

So, I wonder whether the extreme level of religiosity in America, as compared with countries at similar level of development, and the widespread violence, are not reducible to the same root cause. Namely, the lack of a social protection for the people you call "losers".

But again. I have no clue, really. That is just easy chair sociology from my side.

Ciao

- viole

One major difference between the US and all other western nations is a lack of stable families. On average no nation has more than 9% of its kids growing up without both parents. Canada has 15 and the us 25. The resulting child trauma, manual health etc issues are massive.

 

[esmith]

by my criteria, if you own guns, you are mentally deranged

No allowable comment

 

[Secret Chief]

I believe God inspired the Constitution. The right to bare arms along with freedom of worship are vital. Having lived in a place where the average person could not legally own a gun I can say it’s a very bad idea.

Thanks. What would you answer to the OP be in terms of how you would feel living in a country with negligible gun ownership and gun crime?

 

[Secret Chief]

I've no idea

Go on, use your imagination!

 

[Secret Chief]

I believe God inspired the Constitution. The right to bare arms along with freedom of worship are vital. Having lived in a place where the average person could not legally own a gun I can say it’s a very bad idea.

Thanks for the reply. It's not apparent to me why God would inspire gun ownership. Can you explain?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Go on, use your imagination!

Its wonderful to live here in Belgium the greatest country in the world, home of the potato fry. I have a shop where I make various (made in Belgium) authorized candies. It just so happens that today I have had an unusual experience. While wandering through fields of living lollipop stalks, I observe the hive of some candy ants, armored with a highly crystalline shell somewhat similar to that of M&Ms to keep them from melting.

I feel, light, suddenly unburdened by the responsibility of owning a weapon. My gun has disappeared and 300 Euro have mysteriously appeared in my bank account to replace it. People find my accent strange and ask where I am from. "I don't know" I reply.

 

[Secret Chief]

Its wonderful to live here in Belgium the greatest country in the world, home of the potato fry. I have a shop where I make various (made in Belgium) authorized candies. It just so happens that today I have had an unusual experience. While wandering through fields of living lollipop stalks, I observe the hive of some candy ants, armored with a highly crystalline shell somewhat similar to that of M&Ms to keep them from melting.

I feel, light, suddenly unburdened by the responsibility of owning a weapon. My gun has disappeared and 300 Euro have mysteriously appeared in my bank account to replace it. People find my accent strange and ask where I am from. "I don't know" I reply.

I think you should stop eating those candies.

 

[Ella S.]

I live in Canada. Plenty of guns, but our safe storage rules would make it hard to grab one as a home invader is running into your home.

Home invasions here are rare, and the vast majority of them target homes where they're keeping large quantities of illegal drugs.

What I'm trying to get at is: how likely is the thing you're worried about defending yourself against?

If there's a non-zero chance, then it's worth preparing for if the results are catastrophic enough, according to most models of risk assessment.

For the same reason, I also have some survivalist gear that I have been accumulating for awhile (like water purifying kits, gas masks, etc.), which is something that even most gun-nuts think I'm silly for. But I don't think it's silly. It's just risk assessment.

I am fairly confident that I will never need to use any of it, but I would rather have it and not need it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If there's a non-zero chance, then it's worth preparing for if the results are catastrophic enough, according to most models of risk assessment.

But there's also a non-zero chance that your own gun will be used against you or a family member, so that's a risk that a rational approach would try to mitigate, too.

Keeping a gun to reduce your level of risk is only reasonable if the risk reduction the gun provides is more than the risk increase it causes.

It's like putting bars on your windows: is it a good idea? If the main threat you're worried about is people breaking in, then yes. If the main threat you're worried about is fire and getting out, then no.

For the same reason, I also have some survivalist gear that I have been accumulating for awhile (like water purifying kits, gas masks, etc.), which is something that even most gun-nuts think I'm silly for. But I don't think it's silly. It's just risk assessment.

I am fairly confident that I will never need to use any of it, but I would rather have it and not need it.

But even if you manage to establish that a gun will actually improve your net safety (which I'd say isn't the case for most people), there's still the issue of prioritization.

Nobody has infinite resources. There's always going to be stuff that we might like to have in a perfect world but can't because we don't have enough money, time, or whatever.

Where does the net benefit (however you measure it) from a gun rank it against other things?

I mean just looking in terms of life safety, the benefit-cost ratio for a gun, I'd say that for most people, it ranks well below, for instance, a home AED, a residental fire sprinkler system, or never turning the radio on while you're driving.

But where does a gun rank relative to, say, keeping a stock of anti-venom for a deadly snake that doesn't live in the wild where you are, but is kept at the local zoo (non-zero risk, right?)?

To put it another way: if you suddenly got $1000 and could spend it on any risk mitigation or disaster prepping stuff you wanted, what would you buy?

Once you've decided: would that purchase provide more or less net benefit than a gun? If the answer is "more," why would you buy a gun first?

 

[Truth in love]

Thanks. What would you answer to the OP be in terms of how you would feel living in a country with negligible gun ownership and gun crime?

low legal gun ownership does not stop gun crime. At the end of the day I’ve I’m beaten or murdered I’m not going to be too picky about the tool used. Hammers are used more than AR’s to murder I in the US. Dead is dead.

 

[Ella S.]

But there's also a non-zero chance that your own gun will be used against you or a family member, so that's a risk that a rational approach would try to mitigate, too.

Keeping a gun to reduce your level of rusk is only reasonable if the risk reduction the gun provides is more than the risk increase it causes.

It's like putting bars on your windows: is it a good idea? If the main threat you're worried about is people breaking in, then yes. If the main threat you're worried about is fire and getting out, then no.

But even if you manage to establish that a gun will actually improve your net safety (which I'd say isn't the case for most people), there's still the issue of prioritization.

Nobody has infinite resources. There's always going to be stuff that we might like to have in a perfect world but can't because we don't have enough money, time, or whatever.

Where does the net benefit (however you measure it) from a gun rank it against other things?

I mean just looking in terms of life safety, the benefit-cost ratio for a gun, I'd say that for most people, it ranks well below, for instance, a home AED, a residental fire sprinkler system, or never turning the radio on while you're driving.

But where does a gun rank relative to, say, keeping a stock of anti-venom for a deadly snake that doesn't live in the wild where you are, but is kept at the local zoo (non-zero risk, right?)?

To put it another way: if you suddenly got $1000 and could spend it on any risk mitigation or disaster prepping stuff you wanted, what would you buy?

Once you've decided: would that purchase provide more or less net benefit than a gun? If the answer is "more," why would you buy a gun first?

I agree with your points here about prioritization, but they are ones that I already consider.

Without a gun, you cannot enforce your own rights or protect your own life. You have essentially sold your freedom to whatever authority has a monopoly on violence in your area, trusting them to enforce your rights for you.

I don't trust anyone with my life except myself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I agree with your points here about prioritization, but they are ones that I already consider.

Without a gun, you cannot enforce your own rights or protect your own life. You have essentially sold your freedom to whatever authority has a monopoly on violence in your area, trusting them to enforce your rights for you.

I don't trust anyone with my life except myself.

If your gun ownership is about ideology, why all of the song and dance about risk?

 

[Mock Turtle]

I believe God inspired the Constitution. The right to bare arms along with freedom of worship are vital. Having lived in a place where the average person could not legally own a gun I can say it’s a very bad idea.

What was this country?

 

[Truth in love]

What was this country?

Australia. It’s often touted by the gun control folks as great: That is not what I saw.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Americans! Imagine America suddenly didn't exist. You can live in any country you choose, but it must be a country in which the general population do not have guns. How would this make you mostly feel?


1. Concerned that I could not own a gun for self defence.

2. Relieved that I am now living in a country where the general population do not own guns.

3. Something else...

Post at will...

I would not feel good about the police being my protection because it's not realistic.

 

[Yazata]

Americans! Imagine America suddenly didn't exist. You can live in any country you choose, but it must be a country in which the general population do not have guns. How would this make you mostly feel?


1. Concerned that I could not own a gun for self defence.

Perhaps, if I perceived the risk of violent crime to be high.

2. Relieved that I am now living in a country where the general population do not own guns.

It's the criminals that I'm most concerned about. And the criminals are going to be armed with something, no matter what the law says.

 

[Secret Chief]

Perhaps, if I perceived the risk of violent crime to be high.



It's the criminals that I'm most concerned about. And the criminals are going to be armed with something, no matter what the law says.

They may well be. I think knives are more a thing than guns in the UK.

"The most recent data suggests that there were 30 homicides committed by shooting in the year ending 31 March 2020 – 4% of all homicides."

- https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7654/

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's the criminals that I'm most concerned about. And the criminals are going to be armed with something, no matter what the law says.

When a black market gun costs thousands of dollars and the few guns around are all hard to steal, someone trying to steal TVs for drug money isn't going to be carrying a gun "just in case."

 

[Mock Turtle]

Australia. It’s often touted by the gun control folks as great: That is not what I saw.

Presumably you visited after 1996. I have a brother who lives there but I haven't visited the country.