Question for gnosticism people on here

[Deeje]

How does this help a jehovah's witness?Because my current religion is jehovah's witness.

Actually just subscribing to our beliefs does not make you a JW Frank.....just the same as reading a medical textbook doesn't make you a doctor....

If you don't study and attend meetings and dedicate your life to God as a disciple of Jesus Christ by getting baptized, you can't ever BE one of Jehovah's Witnesses.....I hope you understand that.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Lucid dreaming can be an aberration of the brain,(my grandson has lucid dreams, called night terrors when he is sick and running a fever) or it can be induced by dabbling in spiritism. It is an area of the brain that I don't believe is well understood....like hypnotism. We would steer clear of both. The demons can take over a surrendered consciousness.

Dreaming has nothing to do with the brain, apart from the brain itself slowing down neuron activity ( wave reduction ).
Your "mind" (consciousness) is NOT your brain. The brain is just a physical organ of the body like all the others, that just
regulates all the others.

You can see the brain, feel it, smell it, taste it if you like....but you can never touch the "mind" (spirit), because it's not physical.
At death the brain dies and rots into oblivion......the "mind" (consciousness) lives on......and FOREVER.

 

[Frank Goad]

Actually just subscribing to our beliefs does not make you a JW Frank.....just the same as reading a medical textbook doesn't make you a doctor....

If you don't study and attend meetings and dedicate your life to God as a disciple of Jesus Christ by getting baptized, you can't ever BE one of Jehovah's Witnesses.....I hope you understand that.

I was baptized at 18.

 

[Deeje]

Dreaming has nothing to do with the brain, apart from the brain itself slowing down neuron activity ( wave reduction ).
Your "mind" (consciousness) is NOT your brain. The brain is just a physical organ of the body like all the others, that just
regulates all the others.

You can see the brain, feel it, smell it, taste it if you like....but you can never touch the "mind" (spirit), because it's not physical.
At death the brain dies and rots into oblivion......the "mind" (consciousness) lives on......and FOREVER.

And you have what scriptures to back up this belief?

Consciousness is inextricably tied to the brain....Unconsciousness can be chemically induced through drugs, or from a physical blow to the head. It does not always come back. Where is the consciousness of someone in a coma? These ones can awaken years after the original incident that put them in a coma and not remember anything that happened in those years. Where was their consciousness?

 

[Deeje]

I was baptized at 18.

You were baptized in Christendom? Sorry, that is a false baptism IMO. I too was baptized in the church. You and I had no real knowledge of God or his Christ, so it was not valid....nor did it prevent us from excursions into activities that we knew were wrong. A real baptism does not allow for one to walk in and walk out of a religion. This is why you can't "join" Jehovah's Witnesses.....you have to study God's word and come to a correct understanding of what it is that baptism means, and then live up to the vow you make to God in doing so. You become accountable for your actions.

Do you know what Jesus' baptism meant? He had no sins from which to repent, so why did he pressure John the Baptist into doing it?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

And you have what scriptures to back up this belief?

Consciousness is inextricably tied to the brain....Unconsciousness can be chemically induced through drugs, or from a physical blow to the head. It does not always come back. Where is the consciousness of someone in a coma? These ones can awaken years after the original incident that put them in a coma and not remember anything that happened in those years. Where was their consciousness?

For starters, consciousness itself can "sleep"...." Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing", Jesus said.
She IS NOT DEAD, but ASLEEP " ( Luke 8:52 ).

Every day hundreds of people are pronounced "dead" only to return to their bodies and tell about what they experienced, it's called NDE
( near death experience ).

Have you ever seen a "thought " ?
no ?
me either, but I KNOW they are real

And not just real, but MORE "real" than this physical body that will one day rot into dust.
In fact , even though we cannot see thoughts tangibly, we can see the results of them, what they "produce " ( "FRUIT" ).
like every single physical thing that you can see around you right now......including your own life's circumstances.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You were baptized in Christendom? Sorry, that is a false baptism IMO. I too was baptized in the church. You and I had no real knowledge of God or his Christ, so it was not valid....nor did it prevent us from excursions into activities that we knew were wrong. A real baptism does not allow for one to walk in and walk out of a religion. This is why you can't "join" Jehovah's Witnesses.....you have to study God's word and come to a correct understanding of what it is that baptism means, and then live up to the vow you make to God in doing so. You become accountable for your actions.

Do you know what Jesus' baptism meant? He had no sins from which to repent, so why did he pressure John the Baptist into doing it?

When Jesus (the man) was baptized, The Spirit of Christ descended on him ( in the form of a dove )….
At that moment he was no longer just Jesus the man....He was Jesus The Christ .
TRUE "baptism" is of the Spirit......and has virtually nothing to do with physical "water".

 

[Deeje]

For starters, consciousness itself can "sleep"...." Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. "Stop wailing", Jesus said.
She IS NOT DEAD, but ASLEEP " ( Luke 8:52 ).

And the same with Lazarus......
John 11:11-14...
“After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died.”

Did Lazarus speak of where he had been? If you had had an amazing experience after death, wouldn’t you be telling everyone about it? And if Lazarus had moved on to a better life, why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only to die again? Any ideas about that, that are backed up by the scriptures?

Every day hundreds of people are pronounced "dead" only to return to their bodies and tell about what they experienced, it's called NDE
( near death experience ).

Yes, but they are not called AFTER death experiences, are they?
In order to bring someone back from the brink of death, the brain must still have active cells, even if it is compromised...the cells have not completely died. Once brain cells die, (no brain activity) there is no coming back. Brain death is not fixable. When brain cells die due to a lack of oxygen, or a severe head injury, but the person survives, the damage is often not reversible.....it is permanent.

A dying brain releases a raft of chemicals known to produce vivid dream-like experiences. NDE’s have a physical cause and they are usually driven by a person’s own belief system. We also cannot rule out the devil’s ability to take advantage of vulnerable situations to promote his lie....that you don’t really die.

Have you ever seen a "thought " ?
no ?
me either, but I KNOW they are real

Thoughts require an active brain. An unconscious person cannot think. Death is a state of complete unconsciousness.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10...
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun......Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

The dead have lost their consciousness and their ability to plan, to use their knowledge or their wisdom....but notice something else...they have lost their ability to feel emotions....even love. How would that be possible when love is God’s cardinal attribute?

King David too expressed the same thought...the dead do not think.
Psalm 146:4...
“His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish.”

Does this mean that spirits can’t think? Or is it telling us that the spirit is the breath that animates all souls, and that once we breathe out last breath, all thought processes cease?

The ancient Jews had no belief in an immortal soul or in any conscious existence after death, which is reflected in their scripture. Right from the beginning of man’s history, Adam was told that he would return to the dust out of which he was created. (Genesis 3:19) There was no heaven or hell....just life and death.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

And the same with Lazarus......
John 11:11-14...
“After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died.”

Did Lazarus speak of where he had been? If you had had an amazing experience after death, wouldn’t you be telling everyone about it? And if Lazarus had moved on to a better life, why would Jesus bring him back to this life, only to die again? Any ideas about that, that are backed up by the scriptures?



Yes, but they are not called AFTER death experiences, are they?
In order to bring someone back from the brink of death, the brain must still have active cells, even if it is compromised...the cells have not completely died. Once brain cells die, (no brain activity) there is no coming back. Brain death is not fixable. When brain cells die due to a lack of oxygen, or a severe head injury, but the person survives, the damage is often not reversible.....it is permanent.

A dying brain releases a raft of chemicals known to produce vivid dream-like experiences. NDE’s have a physical cause and they are usually driven by a person’s own belief system. We also cannot rule out the devil’s ability to take advantage of vulnerable situations to promote his lie....that you don’t really die.



Thoughts require an active brain. An unconscious person cannot think. Death is a state of complete unconsciousness.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10...
“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun......Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going.”

The dead have lost their consciousness and their ability to plan, to use their knowledge or their wisdom....but notice something else...they have lost their ability to feel emotions....even love. How would that be possible when love is God’s cardinal attribute?

King David too expressed the same thought...the dead do not think.
Psalm 146:4...
“His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground;
On that very day his thoughts perish.”

Does this mean that spirits can’t think? Or is it telling us that the spirit is the breath that animates all souls, and that once we breathe out last breath, all thought processes cease?

The ancient Jews had no belief in an immortal soul or in any conscious existence after death, which is reflected in their scripture. Right from the beginning of man’s history, Adam was told that he would return to the dust out of which he was created. (Genesis 3:19) There was no heaven or hell....just life and death.

 

[Deeje]

When Jesus (the man) was baptized, The Spirit of Christ descended on him ( in the form of a dove )….
At that moment he was no longer just Jesus the man....He was Jesus The Christ .
TRUE "baptism" is of the Spirit......and has virtually nothing to do with physical "water".

It was the Holy Spirit that descended on the newly baptised Jesus anointing him as the Christ.....and God’s voice was heard approving of his selfless mission....giving him supernatural abilities, which he was able to pass on to his disciples.

His baptism was symbolic however, because he told John that it was necessary in order for all things to take place as foretold, after he protested that Jesus should be the one baptising him.

Jesus’ baptism was a presenting of himself to begin his role as Messiah. It was a symbolic death and resurrection, to be carried out on all Christians, as a a way to begin a new life of dedicated service to God as a disciple of his son.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

You're right....because nothing is written in the scriptures of Lazarus's experience at death, that means he didn't experience anything.
But even though I'm being sarcastic, it could also be true. Because I just showed you that the little girl was "dead", but also "asleep" .

You see, you are in error because you don't know that we are reincarnated after death. We come back again in a totally new body
with a totally new brain too. So the person that we were IS "dead" ( nonexistent ) then. andwhat is being said in Ecclesiastes.

You said "thoughts require an active brain". Well, I guess that leaves God out in the cold.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

It was the Holy Spirit that descended on the newly baptised Jesus anointing him as the Christ.....and God’s voice was heard approving of his selfless mission....giving him supernatural abilities, which he was able to pass on to his disciples.

His baptism was symbolic however, because he told John that it was necessary in order for all things to take place as foretold, after he protested that Jesus should be the one baptising him.

Jesus’ baptism was a presenting of himself to begin his role as Messiah. It was a symbolic death and resurrection, to be carried out on all Christians, as a a way to begin a new life of dedicated service to God as a disciple of his son.

"Jesus' baptism was a presenting of himself to begin his role as Messiah " ???........are you sure about that ?
I'm pretty sure the people rejected his messiahship and he did as well.

 

[Deeje]

You're right....because nothing is written in the scriptures of Lazarus's experience at death, that means he didn't experience anything.
But even though I'm being sarcastic, it could also be true. Because I just showed you that the little girl was "dead", but also "asleep" .

You see, you are in error because you don't know that we are reincarnated after death. We come back again in a totally new body
with a totally new brain too. So the person that we were IS "dead" ( nonexistent ) then. andwhat is being said in Ecclesiastes.

You said "thoughts require an active brain". Well, I guess that leaves God out in the cold.

I don’t know what scripture you base your beliefs on, but they bear no resemblance to anything that the Bible teaches....

Reincarnation? Really? What do you imagine “resurrection” to be?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

I don’t know what scripture you base your beliefs on, but they bear no resemblance to anything that the Bible teaches....

Reincarnation? Really? What do you imagine “resurrection” to be?

"And his disciples asked him , "why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first ? "

"Jesus replied. "To be sure, Elijah must come and will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come
and they did not recognize him, but have done to him all they wished. In the same way the Son of Man will suffer at their
hands. "

"Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. "

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Well "resurrection" is a deep subject...
but the short course is, it happens before we die, not after.

 

[Deeje]

"And his disciples asked him , "why do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first ? "

"Jesus replied. "To be sure, Elijah must come and will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come
and they did not recognize him, but have done to him all they wished. In the same way the Son of Man will suffer at their
hands. "

"Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. "

This conversation took place after the transfiguration where Elijah and Moses were seen conversing with Jesus in his glorious spiritual state. The apostles did not think that they were spirits but had been resurrected because tents were offered for their accommodation.
This was in fulfilment of Jesus’ promise that some of his apostles would not taste death until they saw Jesus in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:28)

Moses symbolised the Law...Elijah symbolised the Prophets and Jesus was seen as King of God’s kingdom. It as a vision.

You do understand that symbolism is a teaching technique in the Bible? John fulfilled a role similar to Elijah. This is not anything like reincarnation.

 

[Deeje]

Well "resurrection" is a deep subject...
but the short course is, it happens before we die, not after.

Oh please...resurrection is what Jesus and his apostles performed. Raising the dead was a feat accomplished by Holy Spirit.

Lazarus was dead in his tomb for 4 days.....Jesus brought him back to life.....back to his former life and returned him to his grieving family.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Oh please...resurrection is what Jesus and his apostles performed. Raising the dead was a feat accomplished by Holy Spirit.

Lazarus was dead in his tomb for 4 days.....Jesus brought him back to life.....back to his former life and returned him to his grieving family.

That's correct, raising the dead is dependent on the Spirit. And that has to happen before death, while one is still alive in the body.
If any man does not have the Spirit of God, he is considered "dead" , even though he is alive in the flesh . "let the dead bury their own dead". So when their flesh dies ( the "dead" ) they just get a new one and another physical life here until their time is come.


But those who have acquired the Spirit get to go "home"...
I'm just being brief and not detailed here.

 

[Deeje]

That's correct, raising the dead is dependent on the Spirit. And that has to happen before death, while one is still alive in the body.

No, sorry. That is not true.
John 5:28-29....
“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

“All” who are in their graves, both the “righteous and unrighteous” will be resurrected. Both are called from the same place.

Those anointed for heavenly life are specifically “chosen” for this assignment as kings and priests, and they will be resurrected “first”. (Revelation 20:6)

If any man does not have the Spirit of God, he is considered "dead" , even though he is alive in the flesh . "let the dead bury their own dead". So when their flesh dies ( the "dead" ) they just get a new one and another physical life here until their time is come.

Really? Where will I find that idea in scripture? The spiritually dead are those who reject Christ and who disobey Gods commands. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8) If these ones die, they have paid sin’s wages. God decides if and when they will live again.

But those who have acquired the Spirit get to go "home"...
I'm just being brief and not detailed here.

“Home” for those spirit anointed Christians who have a heavenly inheritance, will be resurrected with a spiritual body, just as Jesus was. Those who will be their subjects will reside here on earth where God put us in the first place. (Revelation 21:2-4) These will complete God’s original purpose to have a perfect race of humans taking care of his creation, as they were first assigned to do in Eden.[/quote]

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Oh please...resurrection is what Jesus and his apostles performed. Raising the dead was a feat accomplished by Holy Spirit.

Lazarus was dead in his tomb for 4 days.....Jesus brought him back to life.....back to his former life and returned him to his grieving family.

That's correct, raising the dead is dependent on the Spirit. And that has to happen before death, while one is still alive in the body.
If any man does not have the Spirit of God, he is considered "dead" , even though he is alive in the flesh . "let the dead bury their own dead". So when their flesh dies ( the "dead" ) they just get a new one and another physical life here until their time is come.


But those who have acquired the Spirit get to go "home"...
I'm just being brief and not detailed here.

This conversation took place after the transfiguration where Elijah and Moses were seen conversing with Jesus in his glorious spiritual state. The apostles did not think that they were spirits but had been resurrected because tents were offered for their accommodation.
This was in fulfilment of Jesus’ promise that some of his apostles would not taste death until they saw Jesus in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:28)

Moses symbolised the Law...Elijah symbolised the Prophets and Jesus was seen as King of God’s kingdom. It as a vision.

You do understand that symbolism is a teaching technique in the Bible? John fulfilled a role similar to Elijah. This is not anything like reincarnation.

I'm sorry you can't understand what I saying to you, but I know you will when the time comes for you.
There is nothing wrong with your "faith" and I wish you well in your studies, and hope you gain understanding more and more.
"faith" comes first, then "knowledge".