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Question For EV Present and Future Owners

esmith

Veteran Member
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.


Is electricity not taxed in your country?

I understand only a small percentage of fuel tax goes towards road infrastructure and maintenance.

Its up to the government how they divide tax income among various projects
 

Suave

Simulated character
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.

I as an E.V, driver am doing my part to help save our Earth from devastating global warming. I'd like the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share of taxes in order to help fund our environmentally friendly green infrastructure.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I as an E.V, driver am doing my part to help save our Earth from devastating global warming. I'd like the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share of taxes in order to help fund our environmentally friendly green infrastructure.

I gave it a like but it also deserves an optimistic
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.
The UK is going to have to grasp this nettle in the next few years too.

I favour a tax based on mileage, ie Road Tax.
Modern cars should be able to do this automatically. The charges could relate to how busy a road is and the time of use. So, if you are travelling at 7:30 on a major highway on a weekday you pay (Say) 10 times what you'd pay for a country lane at 4.30 on a Sunday
 

KW

Well-Known Member
The UK is going to have to grasp this nettle in the next few years too.

I favour a tax based on mileage, ie Road Tax.
Modern cars should be able to do this automatically. The charges could relate to how busy a road is and the time of use. So, if you are travelling at 7:30 on a major highway on a weekday you pay (Say) 10 times what you'd pay for a country lane at 4.30 on a Sunday


That seems like it would require a lot of analysis and would be very complicated to calculate. IT probably would create a whole new bureaucracy to waste more money.

It would probably be easier to tax the charging units just like gasoline is taxed right at the pump.

This is a good question.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
I as an E.V, driver am doing my part to help save our Earth from devastating global warming. I'd like the wealthiest Americans to pay their fair share of taxes in order to help fund our environmentally friendly green infrastructure.
Are you paying a road tax, or are you just feeling superior with you EV and could care less?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.
View from India.
Since fuel needs to be imported at exorbitant cost, shifting to EV saves billions of dollars of central govt money. Hence EV users should get tax benefits as shift to EV decreases govt import debts significantly and helps in energy security. Part of the savings made by the switch to electric vehicles should pay for the roads. Further, If EV infrastructure becomes stable, govt should levy even higher taxes on petrol vehicles to incentivise quicker shift to EVs.
For countries where oil imports are not a financial burden.
One can simply pay an yearly road tax based on the odometer reading of your car...ie the no of miles driven in an year. That decouples the road tax from what is the fuel of the car.
 
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esmith

Veteran Member
Is electricity not taxed in your country?
No.
This is how my electric bill is figured:
Service Charge $5.00
Summer Energy Charge 800 kWh @ $0.085005 per kWh $68.00
Summer Energy Charge 352 kWh @ $0.102214 per kWh $35.98
Power Cost Adjustment $8.72
Fixed Cost Adjustment $8.07
Energy Efficiency Services $3.38
Federal Columbia River Benefits Supplied by BPA - $4.17
Current Charges - Electric Service $124.98

I understand only a small percentage of fuel tax goes towards road infrastructure and maintenance.
The federal government dedicates about 85 percent of federal gasoline excise tax revenues to highways, with the remainder primarily supporting transit. The federal government distributes the associated revenues to states through various highway and transit grant programs.

States are different, see How Much Gas Tax Money States Divert Away From Roads - Reason Foundation.
 

KW

Well-Known Member
View from India.
Since fuel needs to be imported at exorbitant cost, shifting to EV saves billions of dollars of central govt money. Hence EV users should get tax benefits as shift to EV decreases govt import debts significantly and helps in energy security. Part of the savings made by the switch to electric vehicles should pay for the roads. Further, If EV infrastructure becomes stable, govt should levy even higher taxes on petrol vehicles to incentivise quicker shift to EVs.

What fuel is used to make electricity in India?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
As most of us know federal and state fuel taxes go to help pay for road infastruture. Question is how do you think EV owners should pay for road infastruture. With fuel tax the more miles you drove the more fuel you burned and the more tax you paid.
Put the tax on auto insurance.

That's how most industry experts propose handling it.

This works especially well when your insurance company has a real-time, GPS-based measure of how far you're driving, but also still works okay if you're just reporting your odometer reading once per year.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Put the tax on auto insurance.

That's how most industry experts propose handling it.

This works especially well when your insurance company has a real-time, GPS-based measure of how far you're driving, but also still works okay if you're just reporting your odometer reading once per year.
We don't report our odometer reading here. Do you Canadians have to?
Just how do you plan on getting the GPS-based measured distance driven from a motor vehicle
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
What fuel is used to make electricity in India?
Mix of coal, hydro, solar, nuclear and wind.
By the time EV cars become a significant fraction of the fleet (15 years), renewables and nuclear will go upto 50% of the mix from current 20%.
Basically electrification of fleet will happen in sync with decarbonisation of the energy sector.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
We don't report our odometer reading here. Do you Canadians have to?
Just how do you plan on getting the GPS-based measured distance driven from a motor vehicle
Simply introduce a law where you have to report it
That is it.
What is so difficult?
 

KW

Well-Known Member
Mix of coal, hydro, solar, nuclear and wind.
By the time EV cars become a significant fraction of the fleet (15 years), renewables and nuclear will go upto 50% of the mix from current 20%.
Basically electrification of fleet will happen in sync with decarbonisation of the energy sector.

Renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels.

Decarbonisation is going to hurt billions of people. It will be looked on as a cruel joke by future generations.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I as an E.V, driver am doing my part to help save our Earth from devastating global warming.
Kinda sorta.

An EV is greener than an internal combustion vehicle, all else being equal, but an EV still causes congestion just like any car, and when driving in traffic that's mostly IC vehicles, the congestion you cause increases GHG emissions. You also have all the other indirect impacts of auto use: concrete production is one of the world's biggest GHG emitters, and your EV needs just as much space to park as an IC vehicle. Your EV causes just as much demand for parking garages, roads, parking lots, etc., as an IC car.

EVs are a stopgap. The real people who are doing their part to save the planet are those who have structured their lives so that they don't use cars at all. The person who has decided to live within walking distance of work, or who uses an e-bike to get around, or who commutes by transit is "greener" than you are, all else being equal.
 

KW

Well-Known Member
Kinda sorta.

An EV is greener than an internal combustion vehicle, all else being equal, but an EV still causes congestion just like any car, and when driving in traffic that's mostly IC vehicles, the congestion you cause increases GHG emissions. You also have all the other indirect impacts of auto use: concrete production is one of the world's biggest GHG emitters, and your EV needs just as much space to park as an IC vehicle. Your EV causes just as much demand for parking garages, roads, parking lots, etc., as an IC car.

EVs are a stopgap. The real people who are doing their part to save the planet are those who have structured their lives so that they don't use cars at all. The person who has decided to live within walking distance of work, or who uses an e-bike to get around, or who commutes by transit is "greener" than you are, all else being equal.


The most green person is the one producing the most CO2 because increasing CO2 levels increase plant growth rates.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels.

Decarbonisation is going to hurt billions of people. It will be looked on as a cruel joke by future generations.
Your personal opinion is noted.
Meanwhile. India has the fastest growing renewable energy sector in the world. By 2030, 50% of its energy will be from non carbon sources. Extensive research and real world experience has shown renewable energy is the way for India and other countries to modernize its energy infrastructure, decrease deaths due to pollution, stop climate change catastrophies and have energy self sufficiency and energy affordability.

India’s clean energy transition is rapidly underway, benefiting the entire world – Analysis - IEA


Prime Minister Narendra Modi has announced more ambitious targets for 2030, including installing 500 gigawatts of renewable energy capacity, reducing the emissions intensity of its economy by 45%, and reducing a billion tonnes of CO2.

These targets are formidable, but the good news is that the clean energy transition in India is already well underway. It has overachieved its commitment made at COP 21- Paris Summit by already meeting 40% of its power capacity from non-fossil fuels- almost nine years ahead of its commitment and the share of solar and wind in India’s energy mix have grown phenomenally. Owing to technological developments, steady policy support and a vibrant private sector solar power plants are cheaper to build than coal ones. Renewable electricity is growing at a faster rate in India than any other major economy, with new capacity additions on track to double by 2026. The country is also one of the world’s largest producers of modern bioenergy and has big ambitions to scale up its use across the economy. The IEA expects India to overtake Canada and China in the next few years to become the third largest ethanol market worldwide after the United States and Brazil.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
We don't report our odometer reading here. Do you Canadians have to?
Yes. When you renew your car's registration each year, you report your car's odo reading and confirm that it's insured.

If you're in a state that doesn't do this... it would be an easy change.

Just how do you plan on getting the GPS-based measured distance driven from a motor vehicle
Lots of insurance companies now offer a GPS dongle-thing that plugs into your OBD2 port. It's entirely voluntary - you can sign up if you want. When you do, the insurance company monitors your driving and gives you a discount based on how well you stick to the speed limit and avoid heavy acceleration and braking.

Don't they have these in the US?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
The UK is going to have to grasp this nettle in the next few years too.

I favour a tax based on mileage, ie Road Tax.
Modern cars should be able to do this automatically. The charges could relate to how busy a road is and the time of use. So, if you are travelling at 7:30 on a major highway on a weekday you pay (Say) 10 times what you'd pay for a country lane at 4.30 on a Sunday
We have that for lorries (but it's flat and only on state roads and Autobahnen). I and most other drivers wouldn't like that for private cars because it could easily be turned into a surveillance system. So we pay a car tax and a petrol tax and lorries additionally pay toll. That helps to maintain all the road construction sites.
 
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