What would you do if a being calling themselves God appeared and they took you to some sort of paradise and while there they showed you their love for you by showering you with love like you never felt before? Would you believe that they were God? And if you wouldn't believe why wouldn't you believe? Also would you believe if they performed miracles of any kind?
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Question for atheists.
- Thread starter Jos
- Start date
I'm going to reply like I would in life. I had and apartment and new tenants arrived. The male when saw came running over, told me how much he would do for me, smiled and laughed jovilly and later brought me a delicious cake as a welcoming gift. I decided that day not to friend him, it was a setup of some kind.
Friendships and relationships are built up over time. If you are trying to sell me something in a day granting my every wish, then you are not my friend and trying to scam me. If you were my friend you would be there with me in good times and bad times, you would now what I needed and try and give it to me. You would for most of my friendship just listen to me.
It is not love to show up on one day a year or life time and take your son to the amusement park, buy him gifts, let him eat everything he wants and then give him back to his parent for the rest of the year or life time. That is what your god of paradise does, if this makes you happy then so be it.
If that happened without a full background briefing with the relevant being and a voluntary decision on my part to go, I'd be as paranoid as any kidnap victim, wondering what the being actually wanted that would lead it to act in such a way.
In your scenario, I take it I know it's real, not an hallucination. As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I don't know what a real god is (and apparently neither does anyone else) so it wouldn't be possible for me to think it's a god.
If the being did apparently miraculous things I might wonder if they were clever illusions or whether it was a superscientist.
Road Less Traveled
Active Member
I too would be vigilant and cautious, although I’d already know that I’d be able to discern right through it. Some of us are able to discern what authentic love already is right now, and if we are unable to yet discern we wouldn’t be foolish enough to commit until able to discern.
Very clever deception capabilities/abilities can be in us all, wouldn’t see how that couldn’t or wouldn’t be different in that scenario.
I know for certain that if I wanted to trick someone and I were more knowledgeable than they were about themselves, I’d present myself in a way that is appealing to them, already knowing their desires and what could trick and deceive them. I’d shower them with gifts and temporary love, I’d say all of the right and sweetest of words. If I had the power.... I’d already know their desires and how to trick them so if miracles were needed or temporary love like they’ve never seen to be shown, I would do just that. I’d appeal to their every need, want, and desire. Tricks of the mind.
Also, I would not give two tosses what they said their name was even if their drivers license or photo ID said ‘God’ on them.
Very clever deception capabilities/abilities can be in us all, wouldn’t see how that couldn’t or wouldn’t be different in that scenario.
I know for certain that if I wanted to trick someone and I were more knowledgeable than they were about themselves, I’d present myself in a way that is appealing to them, already knowing their desires and what could trick and deceive them. I’d shower them with gifts and temporary love, I’d say all of the right and sweetest of words. If I had the power.... I’d already know their desires and how to trick them so if miracles were needed or temporary love like they’ve never seen to be shown, I would do just that. I’d appeal to their every need, want, and desire. Tricks of the mind.
Also, I would not give two tosses what they said their name was even if their drivers license or photo ID said ‘God’ on them.
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Audie
Veteran Member
See, a foremost value in "teligion" is faith.
Believe despite all evidence, believe despite
no evidence.
The complete and total rejection of objectivity.
An atheist is one who takes note of the complete
lack of evidence for any of thr countless competing
versions of "god" and finds there is no more reason
to believe than in Atlantis.
We see clains for what "god" did (see flood) and find
they are bs.
Now, lets skip your scenario and say
I saw rock solid
evidence for Atlantis, or Batboy, or some god,
why then I would believe they exist.
You have your question backwards, really.
One of our posters said if he were convinced there'd
been no flood he probably would become an atheist.
Safe enough, as the chance that anything could possibly
shake fundy-faith must be near zero.
"Atheis" is not an ism, a religion or an ideology.
It is evidence based. Like disbelief in Batboy,
which we dont call aBatboyism.
Show us god or son of bat, and that will change.
Howard Is
Lucky Mud
This reminds me of Hassan-i Sabbah.
Hassan-i Sabbah - Wikipedia
He was the man responsible for creating the hashishins, the origin of our word assassin.
When he wanted someone’s total obedience, he would tell them he had the power to grant them paradise. During the evening meal, he drugged them with sedatives and psychedelics, and move them to a sumptuous garden filled with beautiful women and every kind of indulgence, so they woke up in ‘paradise’. Before they came down they were sedated again and put back to bed, where they woke convinced that Sabbah spoke the truth.
An early Bohemian Grove ?
That would be evidence either that I am hallucinating or that there is a powerful being that calls itself God that can transport me to nice places while making me feel good.
This certainly doesn't prove this being is the 'creator of the universe', a 'necessary being', the 'giver of morality', or any number of other attributes typically associated with a deity.
Here's the question: What does it mean to be 'God'?
Altfish
Veteran Member
Firstly, I'd be very skeptical.
"Showering with love" sounds pretty awful actually and I don't want any of that nonsense. So if this being is trying to impress she's failed already.
I'd say something like, "Why on earth have you been hiding all these years?"; "Why do you allow childhood cancer?"; "Why do you allow so many to starve?"
Performing miracles is good but good magicians impress me too; if she is better than Penn & Teller I'd start to be impressed.
One thing I would never do is worship her.
I'm not really a theist, this is just a thought experiment that I've wondered about and wanted to know how others would react to it. I was thinoing that I would be skeptical as well but I just wanted to see what others would say.
Yeah, what a person believes doesn't affect reality, the entity could be God independent of if the person believes the entity was God or not but all anyone can really do is evaluate the situation and come to the best belief possible since absolute certainty seems to be an impossible thing to have.
Bit of a false dichotomy... it could also be evidence that someone with magic powers or even no powers but were good at manipulating human psychology or the natural environment tricked you into believing that they were God.
I would ask questions like what is the thing with childhood leukemia?
Why all the unnecessary suffering?
And why all this sudden purvy love while you have not given a toss in the past?
If the being answered to my satisfaction and they could provide incontrovertible proof that their 'miracles' were miracles and not the result of some sufficiently advanced technology then it would be time for a long think.
But its just a hypothetical, if he/she/it exists its never shown itself in over10,000 years of god worship, why should he/she/it turn up now? So that would be another question
Nimos
Well-Known Member
First of all, I would assume that I had some sort of hallucination, if I could rule that one out. I would start to ask question:
1. Why are we here, why did it create humans?
2. Did it create the universe and why?
3. Could it proof to me that it was a God and not just some advance life form?
4. If it was a God, whether it was omniscient and omnipotent?
5. If it answered No to question 4, then I would ask it, why it would consider it self a God then?
6. If it answered Yes to question 4 then I would ask it why it allowed suffering?
7. If it answered Yes to question 4, I would also ask if it considered itself good or evil?
8. Why did it bring me to this sort of paradise, what is the purpose of that?
9. Would it require or expect respect and why would I show it any, when it treats life in the way it does?
If it could answer these questions in a good way, I would probably be more interested in asking it some more questions.
Excellent, deeply meaningful question! But before I answer it, please tell me what you yourself would do if 37 well-shaven chipmunks in pink tutus landed on your back and began giving you a back massage while singing hit K-Pop tunes? I find your and my questions equally wise and insightful.
Lol I would probably think I was dreaming or hallucinating or had gone mad somehow.