Question for Artists. Isn't theology just really bad air guitar? Or the cult of logicalism.

[David T]

So Eric Clapton could not read or write music?
Its a pity that more musos have not heard that story.

Pass it on!!! But do tell it in such a way to force one to look more closely at perceptions which musez automTically do anyway. That's why I tell it like that. How does the muse kokopelli manifest in native american story? He is in greek story or " myth" as the early Christian scientists "theologian$" empirically believed!!! Kokopelli is in the old testament as well. It's impossible to kill an archetype he keeps being reborn again and again and again!!! Born again " And precisely 8 months 20 days to 9 months 3 days variable each year after his death " unto us this a child is born he is risen and alive once mote". Mary-christ-mass. And

Leonard Cohen sang
I have heard it said,
There is a secret cord,
That David played. And it pleased the Lord.
But you don't really care for music do ya.
Well it goes like this,
The forth the fifth,
The minor fall the major lift.
The baffled king composing halelujah!!!

A song about the Lord of song remarkable non churchy song indeed.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Pass it on!!! But do tell it in such a way to force one to look more closely at perceptions which musez automTically do anyway. That's why I tell it like that. How does the muse kokopelli manifest in native american story? He is in greek story or " myth" as the early Christian scientists "theologian$" empirically believed!!! Kokopelli is in the old testament as well. It's impossible to kill an archetype he keeps being reborn again and again and again!!! Born again " And precisely 8 months 20 days to 9 months 3 days variable each year after his death " unto us this a child is born he is risen and alive once mote". Mary-christ-mass. And

Leonard Cohen sang
I have heard it said,
There is a secret cord,
That David played. And it pleased the Lord.
But you don't really care for music do ya.
Well it goes like this,
The forth the fifth,
The minor fall the major lift.
The baffled king composing halelujah!!!

A song about the Lord of song remarkable non churchy song indeed.

Cohen and Bob Dylan

Two Jews who are more Christian than the pope.
Ya see, that's who the true believers are.

 

[David T]

Cohen and Bob Dylan

Two Jews who are more Christian than the pope.
Ya see, that's who the true believers are.

Amen they get it. It was no accident that Dylan tripped through religion for awhile because of his root background in bluegrass folk. Joan Baez hung with Thomas Merton so the sense of spirituality runs deep in American bluegrass. Check out Rising Appalachia a wonderful sister root band love medicine man and first aid kits video Emmylou. Awesome stuff. Graham Parsons would love it Emmylou certainly did.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There was zero Christianity before that moment. Which I might then ask how old is Christianity actually
?

How do you know that is when Christianity was officially born? How would it be Mary and (I forget the other's name) instead of when the Apostles witnessed the Ascension? Paul would probably have favored that idea. Or why not began by Jesus when he began his ministry? Such a thing would certainly be congruent with all the other major world religions, such as Islam beginning with Muhammad's visions or Buddhism beginning with Gautama beginning to spread his own teachings.

 

[David T]

How do you know that is when Christianity was officially born? How w866-684-9805ould it be Mary and (I forget the other's name) instead of when the Apostles witnessed the Ascension? Paul would probably have favored that idea. Or why not began by Jesus when he began his ministry? Such a thing would certainly be congruent with all the other major world religions, such as Islam beginning with Muhammad's visions or Buddhism beginning with Gautama beginning to spread his own teachings.

Well that's an interesting linear question. So i first hve to ask How old are we? 6,000 years old? That's a bit of a trick question that a scientist may very slightly only slightly express. I ran it by a marine biologist aNd he got it correct scientifically sort of but way way short.so how old are we? I can't answer your question unless you understAnd where they are standing as they write the text.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well that's an interesting linear question. So i first hve to ask How old are we? 6,000 years old? That's a bit of a trick question that a scientist may very slightly only slightly express. I ran it by a marine biologist aNd he got it correct scientifically sort of but way way short.so how old are we? I can't answer your question unless you understAnd where they are standing as they write the text.

Are you asking how old modern homo sapien is, how old humanoid creatures are, or how old life in general is? Either one, however, is sufficiently older than 6,000 years old

 

[David T]

Yes

 

[David T]

The bible makes a rather outlandish claim john 1:1,2 that goes way beyond contempary science. As we have developed a notion of history observationally and experimentally we havent been able to reconcile our ingrained notions of time (chronos) that has developed strongly over the last 600 years or so with the text. The though isn't written in context to chronos linear time it's written in context to kairos non linear event driven. So while we had 2 distinctly different understandings of time thousands of years ago today we really only have one. John 1:1,2 read in chronos is a magic act, in kairos totally different.
It literally makes no sense. In kairos it is understood all things work together from the beginning of time. It's for best description very non linear organic and much much more alive view of nature. So the text outrageously claims that what ever we may be what ever Christianity is, it is 14 billion years old by modern scientific understanding. If I were to drag john into the present and state that to him he would just say consistent. There is zero inconsistency between modern observation and john 1: 1,2 at all. Its not magic its understanding. Comprehend? So time can be experienced in two distinct ways. In music one way is a metronome, the other way is the heart beat. One is an intellect idea the other is a body feel. One is pre literate the other literate. I would say that the bible is pre literate writings read literally literate or lacking internal rhythmic awareness to much depth especially theology due to accedemic self selection. It's a joke.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

This is a question for those who question the practice of theology either atheistically, theistically, or agnostically. . Isn't it just a sort of play make believe, it is true only in a self contextualized self contained kind of way. in reality For me it's just Air guitar being played to a stereo with equalizer. Where some like the Wesley equalizer settings, some like the Calvinist equalizer settings, some prefer just making them up as they go a little this a little that? Personally I find it to be simply logicalism and that is rather cult-urally, cult-ish and totally NORMAL.

I find masturbation to be a better metaphor.

 

[Kapalika]

You could argue that those who don't take things literally but purely as metaphor are using religion as a kind of art. I've had a concept myself of my spirituality being a kind of "meta-art" but it really got weird and mystical when I took other things into account. At least for me, it's a *lot* more than what you are describing, let alone for a theist who literally believes something supernatural and 'fantastical'.

 

[David T]

I find masturbation to be a better metaphor.

Lol well I would have put that in the title but I am new here!!

 

[David T]

You could argue that those who don't take things literally but purely as metaphor are using religion as a kind of art. I've had a concept myself of my spirituality being a kind of "meta-art" but it really got weird and mystical when I took other things into account. At least for me, it's a *lot* more than what you are describing, let alone for a theist who literally believes something supernatural and 'fantastical'.

The text is art mandi. It's a lived art in the Christian text. Tolkien got this aspect of the text of mythos archetype into real life. His writing was about exploring aspects of that personally. I might say there is,a thin line between the insane and an artist. The artist sees the line and the insane do not. There is zero line between normalcy and insanity, It's spectral.

 

[viole]

This is a question for those who question the practice of theology either atheistically, theistically, or agnostically. . Isn't it just a sort of play make believe, it is true only in a self contextualized self contained kind of way. in reality For me it's just Air guitar being played to a stereo with equalizer. Where some like the Wesley equalizer settings, some like the Calvinist equalizer settings, some prefer just making them up as they go a little this a little that? Personally I find it to be simply logicalism and that is rather cult-urally, cult-ish and totally NORMAL.

Theology = Leprechaunology = MickeyMouselogy = .....

Since Theos and Leprechauns and Mickey Mouse and .... have exactly the same evidence of existing, I do not see why one should deserve any more "importance" or "respect" than the other.

I hope I did not offend any believer in leprechauns, by saying that.

Ciao

- viooe

 

[David T]

Theology = Leprechaunology = MickeyMouselogy = .....

Since Theos and Leprechauns and Mickey Mouse and .... have exactly the same evidence of existing, I do not see why one should deserve any more "importance" or "respect" than the other.

I hope I did not offend any believer in leprechauns, by saying that.

Ciao

- viooe

LOL, BUt BUT BUT,,,,,until 1975 science thought of homo sexuality as a mental disorder. Autism treated as schizophrenia. 1964 Science and religion were in total agreement reality was a smurf ball just the details differed. lets see, 1790 Sperm was tiny people, leprechauns apparently, 19780 the earth was thousands of years old. 1876 Symbiosis did not exist 1859 zero relationship between life at all. 1927 An intelligent observer apparently observing causes the wave particle collapse according to 85% of all physicists. 1600 there abouts the cosmos becomes identical to the cuckoo clock one and the same according to sir issac, takes 350 years for a wild haired lunatic to call bs on it named Einstein. Lots of goofiness to go around, it's not just the humanities department alone. Although I do think they work hard to prefect it but I would say that is normal.

The real question becomes for me the Alama mater in all the goofiness !!!! The alma mater used to mean nurturing mother of the fields, over time it became applied to mother mary the mother of the faith, further over time it became applied to the universities, the nurturing mother of studies, who gave birth to her children Monsanto and others whom began to plot how to put that evil ***** mother nature under their thumbs!!!!!. Sounds like some whacky greek play in real time. John Muir was onto this in his time. interesting to say the least.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I think the prophet Zechariah is very artistic

 

[Timothy Bryce]

This is a question for those who question the practice of theology either atheistically, theistically, or agnostically. . Isn't it just a sort of play make believe, it is true only in a self contextualized self contained kind of way. in reality For me it's just Air guitar being played to a stereo with equalizer. Where some like the Wesley equalizer settings, some like the Calvinist equalizer settings, some prefer just making them up as they go a little this a little that? Personally I find it to be simply logicalism and that is rather cult-urally, cult-ish and totally NORMAL.

That. Is. The best. Analogy for theology.

Really bad air guitar. Both novel and thought provoking.

 

[David T]

That. Is. The best. Analogy for theology.

Really bad air guitar. Both novel and thought provoking.

Leonard Cohen has been rattling in my brain lately since he died. This whole religious theory forum is more like trying to dissect mozart into a something intellectually scientific other, that people then "beleive" is somehow better. Like a plastic orange tastes better than a real orange. Or as Cohen might say "your plastic love doll is not divine". We used to actually play music before recordings, a communal commumity experience. Today we just consume and critic it like a toy off the shelves or a meal. Oh exactly like theology, go figure. I am big on bluegrass and blues. Even the stones "give me shelter" the whole thing here in religious debates seems to be divine plastic vs not divine plastic. Which plastic do I choose?

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Leonard Cohen has been rattling in my brain lately since he died. This whole religious theory forum is more like trying to dissect mozart into a something intellectually scientific other, that people then "beleive" is somehow better. Like a plastic orange tastes better than a real orange. Or as Cohen might say "your plastic love doll is not divine". We used to actually play music before recordings, a communal commumity experience. Today we just consume and critic it like a toy off the shelves or a meal. Oh exactly like theology, go figure. I am big on bluegrass and blues. Even the stones "give me shelter" the whole thing here in religious debates seems to be divine plastic vs not divine plastic. Which plastic do I choose?

Interesting. And I feel out of place in this discussion.

I have to say though that music is a major component of my spiritual beliefs/engagement.

 

[David T]

"I have to say though that music is a major component of my spiritual beliefs/engagement."

And that is in all likelyhood the best response.