Question for Americans on the Left

[Thanda]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

My wife and I have been polyamorous for years. I support multi-partner families given consent in the relationships.

 

[sun rise]

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

Polygamy has been illegal in the US for over 100 years. There were some in recent times who predicted that changing laws on gay marriage would inevitably lead to changing laws on polygamy. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/are-...com/entry/are-polygamy-bans-unconst_b_4454076

Personally I think that the government should not be involved in regulating the actions of consenting adults so long as no one is harmed.

 

[pearl]

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

First of all polygamy is against the law in the US. And right or wrong this is what comes to mind Warren Jeffs - Wikipedia
What's the difference between sister wives belonging to one man, and a man having a harem? Admittedly, much may be linked to stereotypes that are unfair. Are the additional wives progressively younger than initial wife, as the number of women are added to his wives? Would you be so approving of a woman with several husbands.
Granted the birth rate would certainly be 'lower'.

 

[Left Coast]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

I don't mind people being in polyamorous relationships, all else being equal and everyone giving informed consent. The issue with these FLDS groups, from what I understand, is that they can be extremely patriarchal and girls are married off (ie the marriages are arranged) at a disturbingly young age. If so, that's child abuse and those children should be freed from those abusive circumstances.

 

[Quintessence]

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart.

It's important to bear in mind here how our perceptions of events are biased towards recency. Consider for a moment how much news coverage there is right now about immigration issues. Then consider for a moment how much news coverage there is right now about polyamory issues. How many news articles have you seen on both of these topics over, say, the last few weeks? When something is talked about more in the media, we can mistakenly conclude that other things are non-issues to those involved. This is not necessarily the case. Plus, it is not as if we can only be concerned about one thing. Most of us are concerned about many things, but we're naturally going to talk more about the issues that are in the forefront of public discourse. Further, even if we are more concerned about some things than others, that doesn't mean we don't address the things we consider to be lesser priorities.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

You're making some assumptions there. It might be a good idea to dial back on those. If you think that those who identify with the left in this country don't care about polyamory issues, you are very mistaken.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

I doubt a person can get any ‘lefter’ (more left?) than me, and I have absolutely no problem what you do in your private life. Have as many wives, husbands, concubines, kitties, alligators, etc, as you want. It’s possible you have some confusion in your mind. There are certain groups (I won’t name names) who seem to concern themselves with what other people do in their private lives. O wait, I will name names. No no. I won’t.
I will just say that there are some people who try to tell us how to live, like, for instance, what kind of beverage we should or should not drink. (I won’t name names).
By the way, your very strong biases show through in your post.
Biases are an “against others” mental state.
Hopefully you don’t live in a glass house.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

You'd have to allow women to have multiple husbands. A lot of our laws center around responsibility for child rearing. I'd imagine it to be a monumental task to have lawmakers fix all of the laws to allow polygamy.

Our lawmakers can't even figure out healthcare and education. I've little faith in their ability to fix our family law after such a drastic change.

So not disagreeing with you but you're expecting too much from our government.

 

[Father Heathen]

I see nothing "wrong" with it if all involved are consenting adults, but what does concern me about these kooky religious groups are the likely problems with inequity, coercion, manipulation, abuse, etc.

 

[Milton Platt]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

I assume that it was a Mormon you were quoting. Polygamy is illegal in the U.S. I believe. That was the difference. However, there are many polygamous and poly-amorous relationships now, not just in the Mormon community. However, there was never any law prohibiting the keeping of illegal immigrants together as there was for polygamy. However, many freethinkers believe that polygamy laws are outdated and what happens between consenting adults is their business and not the governments.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

Those fundie Mormon sects are cults that treat girls and women like chattel and they're subjected to a large amount of abuse and fear. They deserve to be broken up but I don't think the children should be separated from their mothers.

I'm not a leftist, though. It's just your attempt to try to compare it to gay marriage is a bit dumb. Polygamy is pretty much only found in backwards, unstable cultures where females are treated like garbage.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Also, polygamy and polyamory are not the same. People keep confusing them. No polygamous culture is really polyamrous. It's not a free for all.

 

[Quintessence]

Also, polygamy and polyamory are not the same. People keep confusing them. No polygamous culture is really polyamrous. It's not a free for all.

To clarify why I use the term polyamory, I do so precisely to avoid the baggage associated with the term polygamy. There is no word in the English language that describes what I'm talking about, but polyamory is far closer to it than polygamy or polyandry. When we come up with a better word to describe "legal marriage benefits shared among any number of mutually-agreeing persons regardless of sex and/or gender," I'll use that. There doesn't seem to be any well-establish term for that.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

Hi @Thanda
First off, while correctly noting that those “on the left” in the US tend to support gay and lesbian issues, I would venture that it is almost invariably the right wing of the US population who actively and consistently seek to interfere with the personal relationships and private lives of the populous.

That said, as others have noted here, while many people in today’s age have no problems with polyamorous relationships between consenting adults, there has (historically and currently) been a number of polygymous “consenting” marriages between men and underage girls, which, in my opinion, requires traumatic neutering of the man with a rusty fork.
Those are the only times “the left” desire laws to prevent them.

 

[esmith]

I assume that it was a Mormon you were quoting. Polygamy is illegal in the U.S. I believe. That was the difference. However, there are many polygamous and poly-amorous relationships now, not just in the Mormon community. However, there was never any law prohibiting the keeping of illegal immigrants together as there was for polygamy. However, many freethinkers believe that polygamy laws are outdated and what happens between consenting adults is their business and not the governments.

Suggest you do a little research. From:
ARTICLE
"No matter what you have seen on television or what you’ve heard about “Mormons,” it’s not true that the mainstream LDS church promotes the practice of polygamy as part of its religion. In fact, any member of the LDS church who is found by church leaders to be practicing polygamy will be immediately excommunicated. The LDS church is so eager to make it clear that it does not practice polygamy, that even children of polygamists cannot be baptized into the mainstream church unless and until they are adults and they disavow the practice of polygamy."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm a South African and have just been watching a show "sister wives". One of the wives mentions that growing up they were always told to be weary of the outside world - the outside world being those outside of their polygamous communities.

She goes on to say that they were told to fear the outsiders becuase they might report their father for polygamy and he would be jailed and their family would be torn apart. In fact she tells that her grandfather had had exactly that happen to him and their family had been torn apart and his children hadn't been able to see each other for years.

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

To go further, those on the left have also fought for the rights of gays and lesbians to form families again, without a care for those of their countrymen who have long been denied the right to form and their own families in polygamous communities.

Full disclosure, my father had two wives. My grandfather had eight wives. We actually had a family reunion recently with my half brothers and sisters at my grandfather's place where two of my grandmothers still live together. I would hate to think what would have happened to our family had we been subject to these irrational American limits on family.

I wonder if you've noticed that males and females are born in approximately the same proportion -- close to (but not quite) 50/50.

Now, if men are allowed multiple wives, but wives are not allowed multiple husbands, and assuming we start from your grandfather's 8 wives, how many men on earth could expect to be married -- and how many would not be able to find any females at all because they're all part of somebody else's harem?

And here's something else to think about: a woman can satisfy a lot more men than any man can satisfy women.

Try to get rid of the myths and ignorance of the past, and start thinking like a human being living in a complex world -- a world that will require us all to work together to keep being a world that supports us. Otherwise, we'll leave the whole thing to the cockroaches, and nobody will care how many wives your grandfather had.

 

[ecco]

So my question is, why does the left in the US seem so concerned about foreign families being torn apart for (illegally) trying to come to the US but there seems to not be the same level of concern about your own countrymen whose families are similarly torn apart. Whose only crime is being a family.

Why do you imagine it is the left that is responsible for the anti-polygamy laws.

Right-Wing Conservatists and Right-Wing Christians are most often one and the same. It was primarily these people who led the anti-polygamy movement.

 

[Thanda]

I doubt a person can get any ‘lefter’ (more left?) than me, and I have absolutely no problem what you do in your private life. Have as many wives, husbands, concubines, kitties, alligators, etc, as you want. It’s possible you have some confusion in your mind. There are certain groups (I won’t name names) who seem to concern themselves with what other people do in their private lives. O wait, I will name names. No no. I won’t.
I will just say that there are some people who try to tell us how to live, like, for instance, what kind of beverage we should or should not drink. (I won’t name names).
By the way, your very strong biases show through in your post.
Biases are an “against others” mental state.
Hopefully you don’t live in a glass house.

You are not addressing the issue. You are saying you have no problem. My post was not about the left having a problem. My post was about the left not being concerned. They are worried about foreign families being torn apart but don't seem to have the same level of concern about their fellow countrymen and women's families being torn apart. The question is why

 

[Thanda]

Why do you imagine it is the left that is responsible for the anti-polygamy laws.

Right-Wing Conservatists and Right-Wing Christians are most often one and the same. It was primarily these people who led the anti-polygamy movement.

I have imagined nothing. I have asked why the left is not as concerned about their fellow countrymen's families being torn apart as much as they care about foreign families

 

[Cooky]

I see nothing "wrong" with it if all involved are consenting adults, but what does concern me about these kooky religious groups are the likely problems with inequity, coercion, manipulation, abuse, etc.

Yes, this is the reason, @Thanda. Religiousity is viewed in light of taboo. It's not considered "progressive" to concern one's self with the religious.