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Question for all religions on here

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Hi.
Firstly if the rich man and Lazuras is literal then for all eternity sin and suffering will go on.
Sin is never DEFEATED only an arpartheid system is imposed.
Sinners get to keep sinning and God is cursed and hated by a part of his creation forever.
Pain and suffering NEVER end.
The righteous , for all eternity, get to watch sinners tortured and listen to their blasphemies against God.

I don't know about you but to me unless the rebellion ends, not just put out of sight but ENDED FOREVER, then creation remains DIVIDED and FALLEN. If their is a SINGLE creature in the Universe in pain then it is NOT paradise. IT IS NOT GOOD..


Secondly... If Adam had not have sinned would he have been stuck on earth forever in the flesh?

Peace.
Firstly,
Why do you think the story Jesus told everyone about Lazarus and the Rich man would be Illiteral?
It is simply impossible to give the event a "Spiritual" explanation.
It is also not a parable, because Jesus did not declare it as one.

All Jehovah Witnesses will have to concede that Lasarus was a living man, who died and opened his eyes in the place where the dead spirits were kept!
If you have any other explanation, please let me know.

Second, Adam was created to live forever in the presence of God.
Adam was created to be an immortal man.
God says, If you eat from the fruit, you will die, and when he did eat of it, he did age and he did die!
Your addition of "Would Adam have been stuck here on earth forever?" is also not aplicable.
Adam was not stuck on the Earth, but was in the presence of God as God's friend.
The Earth and Adams body were totally different as what we see today.
Adam appeared as Jesus did when He ascended into heaven.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
The Bible itself says that you do not have an immortal part of you that survives death. All thought processes cease at death.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,9,10...
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead don’t know anything. There is no longer a reward for them because the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love, their hate, and their envy have already disappeared, and there is no longer a portion for them in all that is done under the sun. . . .Enjoy life with the wife you love all the days of your fleeting life, which has been given to you under the sun, all your fleeting days. For that is your portion in life and in your struggle under the sun. 10 Whatever your hands find to do, do with all your strength, because there is no work, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going." (HCSB)

Solomon makes no allowance for thought, planning, wisdom or activity in "sheol" which is the Hebrew equivalent of "hades" in Greek. "Hades" is translated as "hell" in most Bibles, but "sheol" is simply the common grave of mankind....the place where we all go....The Jews had no "hell".....so "hades" is just the grave too...nothing sinister about it....its the place where we "Rest In Peace".

"It is not the dead who praise the Lord,
nor any of those descending into the silence of death."
(Psalm 115:17)

"His spirit [breath] departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish."
(Psalm 146:4 NASB)

The ancient Jews had no belief in life after death except by resurrection, which they expected to be here on earth under Messiah's Kingdom. This is what their scripture taught.....Jesus did not teach anything different. In fact he reinforced that belief by resurrecting people during his ministry. (John 11:11-14)



The spirit that returns to God is not you, but symbolically means God's ability to recreate you and to reanimate you with his spirit, just as he did with Adam in the beginning...the whole person or soul is returned to life. Adam became a soul when God started him breathing.



This is a misunderstanding and even twisting of what the Bible says. But think for a moment...if you leave out the notion of an immortal soul, (which the Jews did when reading their scripture because they had no such belief,) then what part of them did they expect to be resurrected?

It was only when Jesus came that it was revealed that a certain number would be taken to heaven to become 'kings and priests' over mankind. (Revelation 20:6)

John 14:1-3...
"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."

As Jews, his disciples had no belief in an afterlife. When Jesus said that he would come back for those of "the elect", many of them would have been in their graves a very long time. No one knew when Christ was to come back. (Matthew 24:36)

Paul clearly stated that the resurrection of these 'elect' would not take place until Christ's return. Most people are unfamiliar with this.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17...
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. . . . . For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord."

This is directed at the elect only. These who are "asleep" will be resurrected "first" because the Kingdom will then be set up ready for when Jesus comes to judge the world.

Can I ask, what it is that makes you...you? Is it your physical body? Is it your internal organs? Or is it your personality that resides in the brain? Once the brain has ceased to function, the personality is gone. That person is no longer alive. But when God resurrects the dead by means of his Christ, those who were dead in their graves are given a new body, complete with reprogrammed memories of who they are and who their loved ones are, and who they were in the past. Does it require molecules to be you? Do you understand that in the process of physical cell renewal, that complete replacement of all cells is accomplished in about 7 years? Every 7 years, you are a new person but you are still you because of your retained memories. God will recreate the body and reinstall the memories so that all who are resurrected, either with a physical body or with a spiritual one as Jesus was, will know who they are.



That is not true. From God's perspective no one has really died.....they all live in his memory.

"Moses even indicated in the passage about the burning bush that the dead are raised, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. 38 He is not God of the dead but of the living, because all are living to Him. (Luke 20:37-38)

The dead are dead (asleep).....Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had been dead for centuries when those words were recorded, yet what does it say? That the dead are "all living to God"....he can bring them back as easily as awakening someone from sleep.

I think that you have misunderstood our beliefs.

In this website https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976329?q=elijah+and+enoch&p=doc it says Elijah died

And here: Matthew 27:46-50 it says people thought Elijah could come and save Jesus.

But I don't see how that is true because of John 3:13.:confused:

Why do you think they thought that?:confused:

If John 3:13 is just saying nobody has bodily ascended to heaven.And not talking about peoples spirits it makes more sense.:)
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Do you believe people can pull you out of body?Because I was on a site that said you can.My problem is.I go back and forth believing that we might have a spirit that can be pulled out in the first place.I was baptized methodist.But also believe the spirit might die with the body like in the jehovah's witness religion.So i go back and forth a lot.The website I am talking about is right here: Can you pull people out of their bodies astrally? - ErinPavlina.com

Can you please put this in the paranormal forum? I personally don't know if I believe the person on the website can pull people out of their bodies.If I could be pulled out of body.I would want God to do it.:) Also I don't know if this person is talking to demons(spirit guides)or not.:( To get her out of body ability. I will just stick to praying to God about this stuff.
If I said, 'Okay Frank, we do have a spirit that can leave the body, and return.' Would you believe me?
Would you believe every Jack that says what you may want to hear. Or would you believe the Bible... even if it says what you don't want to hear?
Either the Bible contains the truth, or it doesn't.
It's important we make up our mind, and stop jumping around the fence.
Time does not stand still Frank.
Going back and forth tends to put us in the same spot.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member

nPeace

Veteran Member
In this website https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101976329?q=elijah+and+enoch&p=doc it says Elijah died

And here: Matthew 27:46-50 it says people thought Elijah could come and save Jesus.

But I don't see how that is true because of John 3:13.:confused:

Why do you think they thought that?:confused:

If John 3:13 is just saying nobody has bodily ascended to heaven.And not talking about peoples spirits it makes more sense.:)
Oh sorry Frank. I didn't see this. :)

Remember the Jews (Israelites)? What happened to them... What did they do? They said. "We have sinned, for we have left Jehovah to serve the Baals and the Ashtoreth. . " - 1 Samuel 10:12 ; Judges 3:7
They abandoned pure worship. They left the truth. Remember?.

What happens to those who leave Jehovah - who leave the truth Frank? Would they know the truth, or believe the lie?
What do you think? John 8:12
(John 3:19) . . .the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light. . . (2 Corinthians 4:3, 4)

Remember Saul? Why would he disobey God's clearly stated word, not to get involved with spiritism, nor inquire of the dead? Did he stick to the truth, or did he end up believing the lie... to his death?
What do you think Frank?

That's what happens when we don't stick to the truth. We apostasize, and believe lies and teach them. (2 Thessalonians 2:6-12)

It seems obvious to me Frank, that the Jews who wanted to see Elijah had deviated from from the truth, and thus believed the lie taught by false worshippers - that the dead are living on in another form.
That lie has roots in false religion, going all the way back to the Tower of Babel. It was planted in the Garden of Eden, by Satan. Genesis 3:4

What do you think?
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Oh sorry Frank. I didn't see this. :)

Remember the Jews (Israelites)? What happened to them... What did they do? They said. "We have sinned, for we have left Jehovah to serve the Baals and the Ashtoreth. . " - 1 Samuel 10:12 ; Judges 3:7
They abandoned pure worship. They left the truth. Remember?.

What happens to those who leave Jehovah - who leave the truth Frank? Would they know the truth, or believe the lie?
What do you think? John 8:12
(John 3:19) . . .the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light. . . (2 Corinthians 4:3, 4)

Remember Saul? Why would he disobey God's clearly stated word, not to get involved with spiritism, nor inquire of the dead? Did he stick to the truth, or did he end up believing the lie... to his death?
What do you think Frank?

That's what happens when we don't stick to the truth. We apostasize, and believe lies and teach them. (2 Thessalonians 2:6-12)

It seems obvious to me Frank, that the Jews who wanted to see Elijah had deviated from from the truth, and thus believed the lie taught by false worshippers - that the dead are living on in another form.
That lie has roots in false religion, going all the way back to the Tower of Babel. It was planted in the Garden of Eden, by Satan. Genesis 3:4

What do you think?

I agree.:)
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Glad to hear that.
So you agree that those who pursue a course in opposition to truths of God's word, will end up believing the lie, and you agree that the dead are not alive in another form - be that spirit or otherwise?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Excellent scriptures!
Yes, the Bible assures us that the dead are not alive somewhere else, but asleep in the grave... and they will wake up, if God has them in memory.
(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out. . .

Now could you do me a favor Frank... and yourself. :)
Save this page, so that in the event you are tempted to go back, you can remind yourself of what the scriptures - God's word - here clearly state. :)
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Excellent scriptures!
Yes, the Bible assures us that the dead are not alive somewhere else, but asleep in the grave... and they will wake up, if God has them in memory.
(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out. . .

Now could you do me a favor Frank... and yourself. :)
Save this page, so that in the event you are tempted to go back, you can remind yourself of what the scriptures - God's word - here clearly state. :)

I am starting to think lucid dreaming is just dreaming that you are dreaming.:)What do you think lucid dreaming is?
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Excellent scriptures!
Yes, the Bible assures us that the dead are not alive somewhere else, but asleep in the grave... and they will wake up, if God has them in memory.
(John 5:28, 29) 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out. . .

Now could you do me a favor Frank... and yourself. :)
Save this page, so that in the event you are tempted to go back, you can remind yourself of what the scriptures - God's word - here clearly state. :)

I will save this page.:)
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I am starting to think astral projection is in the mind.:)
Well, a start is good. We have to start somewhere.
However, I hope you go forward, and use each stone to build on... and not be back and forth. :)

Since you now know prior to Jesus resurrection, that no one went to heaven, based on John 3:13, but sleep in death, according to the scriptures you referenced, it would make sense to build on that foundation, and try to connect the things Jesus said about paradise, and the kingdom.
What do you think? :)
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Well, a start is good. We have to start somewhere.
However, I hope you go forward, and use each stone to build on... and not be back and forth. :)

Since you now know prior to Jesus resurrection, that no one went to heaven, based on John 3:13, but sleep in death, according to the scriptures you referenced, it would make sense to build on that foundation, and try to connect the things Jesus said about paradise, and the kingdom.
What do you think? :)

I agree.:)
 
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