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Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Frank Goad, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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  2. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    As a liberal I think the Bible itself lacks consistency on the issue, but considering the evidence that the Bible is a collection of multiple authors over multiple time periods why would we be surprised at the lack of consistency?
     
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  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The Bible is not a history book. It is a collection of writings that have been edited, redacted and compiled by different authors. Most of the books of the Bible are not original compositions, but changed over time by different writers. The importance of the Bible is not in accurate nor consistent texts.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I see the quote but not the question
     
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  5. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    What's the question, Frank?
     
  6. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    A Need for Consistency

    As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

    Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

    1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

    Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

    Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

    Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

    Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

    Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

    I am confused.:confused:

    If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

    My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.:confused:
     
    #6 Frank Goad, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  7. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    You are reading poetry and can't figure out that they are using figurative language?
     
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  8. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    i taste an orange and i tell you what it tastes like. Someone else tastes an orange and they describe it different. You have 3 options. Most get stuck between option 1 and 2. The 3 option is rarely explored.
     
  9. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    We are souls who have material experience. Life force connects soul to
    physical body and animates physical body, spirit connects soul to higher worlds. Balance of soul/ spirit determines if person is earthly or heavenly tuned.
     
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  10. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    I think it is weird that in Psalms 90:10 they say we fly away.Instead of just saying our souls fly away.:confused:
     
  11. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    We are souls.
     
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  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Frank...its "life" that flies away. The older we get the more it flies....believe me!
     
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  13. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Frank, it doesn't take a genius to see that it is figurative
     
  14. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    A Need for Consistency

    As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

    Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

    1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

    Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

    Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

    Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

    Yeah i know that.But if you read the above list.Never does it say we.The correct translation should be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.Because if you look at Genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.Isn't the she departing part.Like the we part in Psalms 90:10?
     
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The "soul" is representative of "life" itself. A soul can only live whilst it breathes. Substituting the word "life" for "soul" and "breath for "spirit", in these scriptures tells the story. Why are you confused? There is no immortal soul that is separate from the body. Contrary to popular belief, the soul and the spirit are not the same.
    The Bible does not teach that we have a soul that merely inhabits the body. We are the soul.....which always refers to a living, breathing creature.
     
  16. Diamond

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    I disagree, I believe that the soul lives on when we die,it leaves the body. we are all energy and energy doesn't stop it just transforms.
     
  17. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    Diamond.Can you reply to my quote right above this?
     
  18. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

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    I think if i get a jw reply(Deeje).And a non jw(Diamond) reply.I can get a better view of both arguments.
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    This is a belief that permeates almost all religions, both Christian and non-Christian.....but it finds no support at all in the Bible. The ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife at all. The only disembodied spirits that the Bible mentions are angels. Faithful angels always materialized in human form to bring their messages to God's servants, but demons had that ability taken away from them after the flood of Noah's day when they abused it. So who are these spirits that pretend to be our dead loved ones?

    When you consider that this is basically saying that spiritism is OK because these are just the spirits of dead people, then it must be all right...but is that true?

    God's law to Israel was....
    “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." (Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV)

    If all spiritistic practices were forbidden by God, then calling them "abominations" indicates that these things were not just 'bad' but had to be avoided at all costs, because it meant putting oneself under the control of the demons.

    Why would God forbid us to inquire of our dead loved ones whom we could freely communicate with in life, but not after death? It was because this is not who we are talking to. Demons masquerade as the dead to promote the first lie that the devil told in Eden...."you surely will not die". Yet God told Adam that they would simply return to the dust. There is no mention of an afterlife or an immortal soul in Genesis or any other Bible book. Satan has lied to mankind from the beginning, making suggestions and offering all manner of deception to gain his converts.....if we fall for them by going against what God says, then we place ourselves in harm's way. We will end up paying for it with our lives, according to the Bible.
     
  20. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Its like reading poetry written thousands of years ago.
     
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