cataway
Well-Known Member
that may very well be . the 2nd best answer is its in michigan it has a zip code . but i think the name of the town has been changed to Gay hell. some one bought it and changed the name
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Question for all jws
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
cataway
Well-Known Member
you said ''When we die we go into the light''.then you said ''Life is short. And there's no afterlife.'' which is it ?
nPeace
Veteran Member
Clicks? Do you mean in the same way an idea clicks when it sounds good, because you like it, and are comfortable with it?
What will happen then if you suddenly became uncomfortable with it? It will unclick, wouldn't it, and then you may find something else clicking.
You do know about Jim Jones, and you probably heard about the other Jimmys - Jimmy Swaggart; Jim Baker?
You need to be careful Frank.
I was hoping you would say, you would be convinced if it's in the Bible, or because the teachings are in agreement with the Bible.
That ought to be our measuring rod, because first, it is the oldest book about God, and second, you can trust what it says.
So, if the JWs seem to you, to teach what the Bible says, I would hope that was the reason for your believing their religion was good. I think there is more to it though. I think you realize that they are unique - good people, who show you more love than you normally see in people, and you also realize that they reason with you, rather than try to force you to believe or accept anything. I think those things resonate with you, because I think you have a genuine heart, and I think God will help you, but you need to accept that help. How so?
We told you how, a number of times, and I see below, Deeje is telling you again. We think time is running out, but it's a decision each individual has to make, for themselves.
Something tells me you will make the right decision.
nPeace
Veteran Member
No. You deflected from my questions. Recall, I asked first. You tried feigning, but it's not working.
Let's try that again.
Here we go... What stories do I believe about heaven , hell , soul, spirit, who God is ,who Jesus is jw?
cataway
Well-Known Member
i say go ahead tell us what you know of the place called hell
nPeace
Veteran Member
So first, since you do not know what I believe, from what I don't believe, I want to know... Do you think that what you did - jumping to the conclusion that someone believes what mainstream religion believes, because you think they don't belong to your group - was a good thing?
Death and rebirth? Where will I find “rebirth” in the Bible? There is no connection between the living and the dead because the dead are not in a conscious state. (Ecclesiastes 9:5;10) They are incapable of thought or activity.
In his Law, God forbade his people to 'inquire of the dead' because he knew that the pagan nations practiced this form of spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) It puts one in touch with the demons.
The word "spirit" in the scriptures has a few different applications. It never means a disembodied entity when referring to humans. It is mostly related to breathing or to the character traits of a 'spirited' person.
The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. In English we have "pneumonia" and "pneumatic" both relating to air....not spiritual entities.
Spirit beings are disembodied entities but they were created to be such....e.g. angels. These spirit creatures did not need to spend time on earth to qualify for life in heaven...in fact they were around when God created the physical universe.
There is no 'spirit' in man except the "breath of life"...the thing that God gave to Adam to animate his lifeless body. God will return our spirit (breath) when he resurrects the dead. (John 5:28-29) He will create new bodies and the 'spirit' that 'returned to God' will be given back to humankind so that they can resume the life that God intended for them at the beginning. He never meant for us to go anywhere but this earth.
It is satan who wants us to believe we don't really die, and his minions are all too willing to impersonate the dead to perpetuate his first lie....."you surely will not die". Its the one lie that is found in all false religion.
Lucid dreaming can be incorporated into religious activities and take people off on tangents that will lead them away from God and into the arms of his adversary....the great deceiver.
Thank you...was that a load of Beneficial Substance?
God is a King, and Kings have subjects....we are not slaves but willing servants of our Father as Jesus was. (Acts 4:30)
Yet there is something we can give God that he cannot give himself.....our love, loyalty and obedience. Not forced or engendered by fear, but out of genuine love for our extraordinarily generous heavenly Father.
Who said? God communicates his needs and desires in his word, the Bible....have you not read it?
He 'desires' that no one should perish when he brings the present system crashing down (2 Peter 3:9)
He 'desires' all we all obey his directives and laws. (Isaiah 48:18; 1 John 5:3)
He 'needs' us to populate his planet.....and he 'needs' us to follow his guidance in order for our lives to be happy and meaningful. Its all there in his instruction manual.
I think this kind of distaste is coming from Christendom's power structure, which has been used to enrich an elite few and to subjugate many for centuries...but it is nothing like Jesus started. Its one of the reasons I left Christendom. JW's have no power structure. There are no bosses, just shepherds who care about our welfare. No paid clergy, no distinctive garb, no funny hats, no ornate cathedrals, idols, rituals or tithing. We are an International body of Christians who are getting the work that Jesus assigned to his disciples, done. (Matthew 28:19-20) The end is coming and no one can stop it. The apostle Peter says...
"But based on His promise, we wait for the new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness will dwell. Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found at peace with Him without spot or blemish." (2 Peter 3:13-14)
His intentions are clearly laid out in scripture......you haven't read it apparently....
Its in Genesis.
Again, you haven't read the Bible or you would know what his purpose is, and why he has allowed humankind to reach this point.
Now this is pure 'pie in the sky' nonsense......where did you get this idea? Oh, hang on...I just checked your religion....LOL.
Very creative....all your own work?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
How about this -My dad asked me to day what would it take for me to believe that my spirit goes to heaven when I die.Before I die.I don't have an answer yet.If your dad asked you this what would you say?
“Dad, this is a conversation we’re going to have to put on hold. You see we can’t have a discussion because I really have no idea what I’m talking about. I haven’t made the time to seriously study the religious path I’ve been telling you I believe is right and true. But don’t worry Dad. I’ve posted on a forum I belong to and hopefully someone will do my work for me and provide an answer I can use.”
cataway
Well-Known Member
why would i not know what your beliefs are . chill
you are JW?
InChrist
Free4ever
You can believe your spirit leaves your body and goes to be with the Lord in heaven because the scriptures say so...
... the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7
dfnj
Well-Known Member
It's both ways. Life is short so we should try to live it to the fullest of our participation. And when we die we go into the light. I think once we melt into God it is the greatest possible and most fulfilling experience. Why would you want to continue on when everything else will be nothing compared to the experience of God. Of course I don't know what will happen. But many people with near death experiences describe the light as the presence of God and the experience itself is very fulfilling.
I think when you have a religion that promises the best is yet to come, that is, after you die people do not try as hard. This is one of my main problems with modern Christianity. People are too complacent with their own salvation. They just let the World crush them in victim-hood putting all their faith in the afterlife. I think this is the wrong approach.
I believe all our experiences are shared by God. And when we have experiences of profound joy (not at the expense of others) we are serving God.
"Dad, what are we actually talking about here?My dad asked me to day what would it take for me to believe that my spirit goes to heaven when I die.Before I die.I don't have an answer yet.If your dad asked you this what would you say?
"What do you mean when you say spirit? And heaven? Something real or something that only exists as a concept in individual brains?
"If spirit is real, show it to me, and then we can go from there. If it's not real, why should we bother?
"If heaven is real, point it out to me, and then we can get into other important things like its system of government. If it's not real, why should we bother?"
dfnj
Well-Known Member
I disagree. God is not anything that can be defined with words. God is beyond our comprehension. There is no court.
We cannot give God anything. God is already perfect, whole, and complete. It is not possible to give God anything.
Obedience to authority is made up BS so the king on Earth can pretend he is God and get the people to treat him like God. It's made up. Our omnipotent God needs nothing from us.
I said.
Yes I read it. I was not impressed. I found the archaic words difficult to read. I thought it was a great history of the Jewish people. But I thought the morality was little outdated.
The Bible was written by men. It is not the word of God but the word of men. I will prove it to you. Consider the following three quotes:
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
As if my wife would ever allow me to have a concubine. Don't you find it a little strange if the Bible were the absolute truth and word of God that having a concubine would be morally okay?
The ending of Psalm 137 is often omitted from readings in church:
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
In what Universe is it morally okay to dash an infant against the rocks!!!
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
I'm sorry, how can you think the Bible be absolute truth and the word of God if it got the morality of slavery wrong!
The people pretending to speak for God are delusional. Peter is not God. John is not God.
I disagree. The Bible is a terrible philosophy to live by. I think Friedrich Nietzsche had some acute criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to take what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, good sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they really wanted but were incapable of achieving while praising what they did not want was being virtuous. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness." A Christian slave was too weak to have any personal voice and was only capable of bending a knee to whoever was in authority. We have to balance submission to authority with a healthy self-esteem and confidence in our own inner authority.
This is you bending your knee to authority out of fear:
People quote the Bible as if they are speaking for God. You are not. If you think you are you are delusional. I believe when it comes to religion and opinions about God absolute authority comes from within. Anyone who tells you differently is either trying to sell you something or get you to join the power structure of their cult.
There are a lot of people who idolize scripture. They treat the words of the Bible like they are little idols. I am not one of them. If you want to bend your knee to the Bible or to the church then less power to you. I just do not believe it matters to God. The authoritarianism, the use of the word "lord" is all authoritarianism. You cannot have a lord without slaves. You would think an omnipotent God of unconditional love would be slightly more egalitarian than authoritarian. God has no need to be worship. Men pretending to be God on Earth however use the Bible to leverage people with obedience.
I've read the Bible. I just do not believe in authoritarianism. I do not fear and all-loving God. My faith is in an omnipotent God of unconditional love. There is nothing I can do on Earth that will stop my God from loving me. This is what unconditional love means. No conditions.
You can keep your lesser authoritarian god of never ending judgment. My God is stronger than your god because my God is strong enough to love everyone exactly just as they are with all their imperfections.
Most of my ideas about God are based on Apophatic theology:
Apophatic theology - Wikipedia
See, unlike you, I actually read the Bible. You are just a fan of scripture. An idol worshiper of words. You don't know what they mean.
As I said, an omnipotent God needs absolutely nothing from us. The god you worship is lacking because according you claim he requires you to worship him. My interpretation of the Bible does not include authoritarianism. I just see no reason to think God has a need to have subjects.
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OK, so you've created a box and squeezed God into it? I see that you are not open to anything but your own opinion and I wish you all the best with what you hold to be true.....I have nothing to tell you or to offer you.
cataway
Well-Known Member
The Bible states that when a person dies, “the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Does this mean that a spirit entity literally travels through space into God’s presence? Not at all! The way in which the Bible uses the word “returns” does not require an actual movement from one place to another .
At death no actual movement from the earth to the heavenly realm occurs. when the spirit “returns” to God.
Once the life-force is gone from a person, only God has the ability to restore it to him. It is the same as your ability to flip a switch that returns electrical power to a dead circuit .
So the spirit “returns to the true God” in the sense that any hope of future life for that person now rests entirely with God too flip the switch.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
My dad asked me to day what would it take for me to believe that my spirit goes to heaven when I die.Before I die.I don't have an answer yet.If your dad asked you this what would you say?
"Going to Heaven" comes from the scriptures. Shamefully, the JWs take many doctrines that are not found in the Holy Bible.
cataway
Well-Known Member
the JWs never said no one go's
cataway
Well-Known Member
its just far few'er than you want or expected . the earth is man's home .is and will all ways be.
Matthew 5:5
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
i wonder it you have perhaps ever considered what the earth would be like if Satan ,and his horde ,was removed from the earth ? but not only that. but when Jesus take's over and rules the earth ?? sickness and all infirmities were gone . and even death was removed from all of mankind. would you then understand why there is no need for every one to go to heaven ?
Matthew 5:5
5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.
i wonder it you have perhaps ever considered what the earth would be like if Satan ,and his horde ,was removed from the earth ? but not only that. but when Jesus take's over and rules the earth ?? sickness and all infirmities were gone . and even death was removed from all of mankind. would you then understand why there is no need for every one to go to heaven ?
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