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Question for all jehovah's witnesses on here

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Your talk of "free will" is bogus.
Your denial of free will is bogus. If they had no free will then the choices they had to make concerning the forbidden fruit was nonsensical. Why would God make a command if they had no free will to obey it? Why make a death penalty for something they couldn't help? That is just nonsense.

You use that idea as a way to explain away the truth that Adam's flesh was the same flesh both before and after he sinned. And Paul says that when he does what he wills not to do it is no longer he that does it but sin dwelling in his flesh. He says of himself "Oh wretched man that I am". He also says that the law is made weak by the flesh, not by "free will".

You are confusing self interest with sin. Adam's flesh was changed by sin. What led to his sin was a division of his loyalties carefully planned by the devil who was there in the garden as a guardian angel. (Cherubs are not cute little baby angels....they are the guardians that God uses to protect something) When the two were evicted from Eden, it was cherubs he used to guard the way to the tree of life. Angels also have free will otherwise satan could not exist. He chose to rebel and he offered temptation to the woman, not to Adam. He was the target all along but the devil got to him through his love for his mate. He put her before his God. Divide and conquer is a very successful tactic.....it still works for him.

The JW"S totally miss how Paul personifies sin and the flesh. It's no wonder they are astray.

Rubbish! Paul personifies what fallen human flesh experiences.
Michael throws satan out of heaven.....is there flesh in heaven? Seriously, your version makes absolutely no sense.

Adam was a free willed, perfect, sinless specimen...there was no sin in him...until he chose to do it. Choices mean you have free will. What you say is illogical.

Jesus was also a perfect sinless human, but he withstood the temptations of the devil, proving that Adam had no excuse. Sin is a choice, not an inevitability. Obedience to God is what separates the sheep from the goats.

I believe that your reasoning is flawed. Do you have a brotherhood who shares your beliefs and with whom you worship?....or are you just another 'lone ranger' with his own ideas gleaned from the misinterpreted musings of others? :shrug:
 
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LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Your denial of free will is bogus. If they had no free will then the choices they had to make concerning the forbidden fruit was nonsensical. Why would God make a command if they had no free will to obey it? Why make a death penalty for something they couldn't help? That is just nonsense.



You are confusing self interest with sin. Adam's flesh was changed by sin. What led to his sin was a division of his loyalties carefully planned by the devil who was there in the garden as a guardian angel. (Cherubs are not cute little baby angels....they are the guardians that God uses to protect something) When the two were evicted from Eden, it was cherubs he used to guard the way to the tree of life. Angels also have free will otherwise satan could not exist. He chose to rebel and he offered temptation to the woman, not to Adam. He was the target all along but the devil got to him through his love for his mate. He put her before his God. Divide and conquer is a very successful tactic.....it still works for him.



Rubbish! Paul personifies what fallen human flesh experiences.
Michael throws satan out of heaven.....is there flesh in heaven? Seriously, your version makes absolutely no sense.

Adam was a free willed, perfect, sinless specimen...there was no sin in him...until he chose to do it. Choices mean you have free will. What you say is illogical.

Jesus was also a perfect sinless human, but he withstood the temptations of the devil, proving that Adam had no excuse. Sin is a choice, not an inevitability. Obedience to God is what separates the sheep from the goats.

I believe that your reasoning is flawed. Do you have a brotherhood who shares your beliefs ans with whom you worship?....or are you just another 'lone ranger' with his own ideas gleaned from the misinterpreted musings of others? :shrug:

The nice thing about being me is that I don't have to go along to get along.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Your denial of free will is bogus. If they had no free will then the choices they had to make concerning the forbidden fruit was nonsensical. Why would God make a command if they had no free will to obey it? Why make a death penalty for something they couldn't help? That is just nonsense.



You are confusing self interest with sin. Adam's flesh was changed by sin. What led to his sin was a division of his loyalties carefully planned by the devil who was there in the garden as a guardian angel. (Cherubs are not cute little baby angels....they are the guardians that God uses to protect something) When the two were evicted from Eden, it was cherubs he used to guard the way to the tree of life. Angels also have free will otherwise satan could not exist. He chose to rebel and he offered temptation to the woman, not to Adam. He was the target all along but the devil got to him through his love for his mate. He put her before his God. Divide and conquer is a very successful tactic.....it still works for him.



Rubbish! Paul personifies what fallen human flesh experiences.
Michael throws satan out of heaven.....is there flesh in heaven? Seriously, your version makes absolutely no sense.

Adam was a free willed, perfect, sinless specimen...there was no sin in him...until he chose to do it. Choices mean you have free will. What you say is illogical.

Jesus was also a perfect sinless human, but he withstood the temptations of the devil, proving that Adam had no excuse. Sin is a choice, not an inevitability. Obedience to God is what separates the sheep from the goats.

I believe that your reasoning is flawed. Do you have a brotherhood who shares your beliefs ans with whom you worship?....or are you just another 'lone ranger' with his own ideas gleaned from the misinterpreted musings of others? :shrug:
I'm not saying that people have no ability to makes choices. I'm saying, as the Scriptures says, that the struggle is between the flesh and the Spirit. The flesh is personified because it has tremendous power to influence us to make choices we know is against our better judgment. That's because the flesh has desires that care nothing about the laws of God. That's why Paul says the law is made weak by the flesh.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The nice thing about being me is that I don't have to go along to get along.

People had to go along with what Jesus and his apostles taught.....they had to belong to the group that followed Jesus. They met for worship (Hebrews 10:34-35) They did not 'get along' without one another.

Jesus said.....
"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

Do these people sound like they were confident in their beliefs? They can't believe that Jesus has rejected them....they seem to themselves to be doing everything right.....yet Jesus says "I never knew you"...."never" means "not ever". How did they get to be so wrong?

I'm not saying that people have no ability to makes choices. I'm saying, as the Scriptures says, that the struggle is between the flesh and the Spirit. The flesh is personified because it has tremendous power to influence us to make choices we know is against our better judgment. That's because the flesh has desires that care nothing about the laws of God. That's why Paul says the law is made weak by the flesh.

You still haven't told me how satan can be evicted from heaven when flesh and blood cannot reside there.

It is fallen human flesh that Paul spoke about. Adam, in the perfection in which God made him, would not have had such a battle. Jesus certainly didn't.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
You still haven't told me how satan can be evicted from heaven when flesh and blood cannot reside there.

It is fallen human flesh that Paul spoke about. Adam, in the perfection in which God made him, would not have had such a battle. Jesus certainly didn't.

I've already explained that the Satan in Revelation 12 is a mortal man. That man has yet to be revealed.The heaven that he is to be thrown down from is not the heaven where God resides but a figurative heaven.
Go back and read post #12, 13 and 20
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I've already explained that the Satan in Revelation 12 is a mortal man. That man has yet to be revealed.The heaven that he is to be thrown down from is not the heaven where God resides but a figurative heaven.
Go back and read post #12, 13 and 20

I saw your assertions and thought them ridiculous because there is nothing in the Bible to back them up. Reading your misinterpreted explanations is not answering my questions. You found excuses to twist scripture to suit your own beliefs.

If you are going by scripture then provide scripture to prove that what you say is even remotely possible.

If you have gleaned your interpretations from others, who are they? Point me to them so that I can examine the full spectrum of their beliefs.

If you have decided for yourself how to interpret scripture, then where is your brotherhood who should all hold your beliefs in common and meet for worship that you also hold in common? Tell me who they are.

These are all part of being “Christian”......following Jesus’ teachings as a brotherhood. If you have no brotherhood, then you aren’t a Christian at all. There are many thousands of ‘lone rangers’ in this world, all with their own ideas about how to interpret the Bible....but to be acceptable to Jesus, we have to be “doing the will of the Father”....which (at this time) means doing what Jesus said, as part of the sign of the end times.....

“And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)

Preaching the good news about God’s Kingdom wasn’t a recommendation....it was a command from Jesus himself....

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

....this is what true Christians are doing as a global brotherhood. It is taking place in every nation on earth. Where are your brothers? Where is their witnessing? Or is this all going to be done by you?!

Jesus said he would back this work.....so, who is doing it? What is “the good news of God’s Kingdom?
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I saw your assertions and thought them ridiculous because there is nothing in the Bible to back them up. Reading your misinterpreted explanations is not answering my questions. You found excuses to twist scripture to suit your own beliefs.

If you are going by scripture then provide scripture to prove that what you say is even remotely possible.

If you have gleaned your interpretations from others, who are they? Point me to them so that I can examine the full spectrum of their beliefs.

If you have decided for yourself how to interpret scripture, then where is your brotherhood who should all hold your beliefs in common and meet for worship that you also hold in common? Tell me who they are.

These are all part of being “Christian”......following Jesus’ teachings as a brotherhood. If you have no brotherhood, then you aren’t a Christian at all. There are many thousands of ‘lone rangers’ in this world, all with their own ideas about how to interpret the Bible....but to be acceptable to Jesus, we have to be “doing the will of the Father”....which (at this time) means doing what Jesus said, as part of the sign of the end times.....

“And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)

Preaching the good news about God’s Kingdom wasn’t a recommendation....it was a command from Jesus himself....

Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

....this is what true Christians are doing as a global brotherhood. It is taking place in every nation on earth. Where are your brothers? Where is their witnessing? Or is this all going to be done by you?!

Jesus said he would back this work.....so, who is doing it? What is “the good news of God’s Kingdom?
There are many who believe that Revelation all takes place in the future. In Christian eschatology it's called "Futurism".
From my studies in the Scripture I can see that Paul's "man of sin" and John's "Red Dragon" and Daniels', chapter 7 "little horn" are all the same man. And this man, whose working is after the energy of Satan, is yet to be revealed.
He is called Satan because he follows after his own evil lusts of the flesh. He is red because he murderers many who do not worship the beast and his image.
He is said to be that original serpent because it was lust of the flesh(Satan, the devil) that caused Adam to sin. Just as James says. "lust gives birth to sin and sin death".
James does not say "free will gives birth to sin and sin death". No, it is lust of the flesh that gives birth to sin.
 
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