1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Question about use of religious scriptures

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Amanaki, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    The scripture in each religion is of course seen as the true teaching within the religion we follow.
    But a question arises both from experiences done, but also from seeing how others react to the scripture.

    The question is.

    If you read a religious scripture and come to understand this is the truth, this is how the world actually is. Then before you look up from the scripture you close your eyes and "meditate" on what you just read. then you open your eyes, walk out into the world with only scripture in mind. Aren't you going to be shocked when you look around and see that the world is not as perfect as scripture tells you?
    What i trying to say is, yes we do need the scripture to understand the teachings, But if we can not see the fault in the world when we look at it. how can we behave incorrect way toward others when they do not see the same world as you do?

    Or are my thoughts really far off this time?
     
  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    7,210
    Ratings:
    +1,716
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Depends who is the assessor, for me I use religion as a way to see hypocrisies down here near Hell, and the religious texts point out what not to follow....

    So instead of looking for truths, it gives me what is not true, and fallacies people often make.
    Most of the Divinely Inspired religious texts point out we're down Near Hell, where people are demons (prideful, arrogant, accusative {satan}, slanderous {devil}, mockers, and scoffers).

    We might be disappointed if we ignore the texts, follow the traditions of men who declare we're all saints, and the world is perfect.
    This is a problem, and needs fixing globally... In the past we had understanding, not religious labels... Thus people studied to understand, not to pretend they're in a social club.

    Moses & Muhammad both established a statutory Law system, and a council of elders, in other words government...

    So in this modern time, we need to create a new religion that fits all of our knowledge, encompassing all moral ethical values of our global society, and unite the understandings as one, otherwise mankind will destroy its self over principles.

    Religious texts all need putting back together as coming from the One Source, and people need to get over their gang mentality opposed to it...

    It is like the division between science Vs religion, when they're the same thing, both are trying to comprehend our reality with the best information available to us, and if people worked together, rather than accuse each other of being wrong, we might progress.

    Otherwise as you're asking, what if a one sided very biased single biggoted religious view will cause us to be disappointed by what we find in the world?

    Of course it will, as any narrow perspective makes people fight to defend it, and the more limited the view point, the more they're scared of approaching new situations, thus will become irrational from the lack of understanding.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,925
    Ratings:
    +2,121
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I really don't know the application. Is there a religion that doesn't acknowledge the mess the world is in? All I can think of is when someone thinks that what is here is only an illusion but even then it acknowledges that they can see what is here.
     
  4. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Maybe my mistake in not being clear in my OP :) I mean if someone who study religious text become so obsessed with the texts that when they look out into the world they do not understand why the world is different then what the text tell them it should be. scripture is important to understand the wisdom within the religion, but the life we live is in physical world and if we can not understand both the text and the world, how are we going to be able to see the truth of the scripture within our world so we can make it better for our self
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    7,925
    Ratings:
    +2,121
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    :) OK - Got it.

    I love the way you spliced the reading and meditation. Indeed, I find that meditating on what you read does, in reality, opens understanding and increases faith.

    Your point is true when one becomes obsessed with one set of texts. Perhaps it happens when it is at the expense of other tests?

    Or when "understanding" is not imparted or, in other words, ignorance for lack of understanding takes over?

    Have you encountered someone who this has happened to?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Yes i have experienced that a few people get so obsessed with the scripture and how the world "should be" that they almost get shocked when they realize their own understanding of the world does not line up with the physical world today. Because they no longer have a realistic view of other people and their behaviour they can only see what the scripture say.
    But in my own experience i noticed that only by using the scripture as a guideline AND the physical world as the study room,one can actually see what the teaching is trying to tell us :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Messages:
    3,692
    Ratings:
    +1,497
    Religion:
    Catholic
    One who really studies the texts understands them within a particular time and culture. We have questions today that were not addressed in that life situation. But the world remains a duality of good and evil. The text evolved in the physical world. The 'truth' remains the same, our challenge is how does it relate to my life today.
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,742
    Ratings:
    +7,703
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    For me, it kind of works in reverse. Scripture, for me, is more of a validation of my experiences.

    It's more like I can read the scripture and relate it to what I've experienced. Kind of like, "Oh, so others have experienced this as well, so I'm not off my rocker."

    Already having the 'what,' reading the surrounding context helps me to understand the 'hows' and the 'whys.'
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Totally agree with you on this when you put the way you do here :)
    But unfortunately a few people only rely on the scripture and forget to live in the physical world (in my understanding)
     
  10. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,373
    Ratings:
    +12,552
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Not everyone relies on scripture in the way that you're suggesting. As for those who do understand it that way, I have no idea as I've never been in that mindset to observe it.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    May i ask? if to personal you do not need to answer :)

    If you do not follow any scripture or teaching from Guru, how do you become more enlightened? (if that is a part of your practice of course)
     
  12. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,373
    Ratings:
    +12,552
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Guru is a guide on what to do. He provides a road map. He isn't someone telling you what to believe, but rather someone advising on how to discover within yourself what to believe. So he teaches meditation and other techniques without telling what the results will be. Very different paradigm.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Now i understand what you meant :) yes a Guru only guide you he/she does not do the job for us hehe
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,718
    Ratings:
    +14,307
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Scripture is scripture. Which is to say, it is unliving text.

    Actualization of scripture, its internalization, the process of lending it a life of our own while we apply discernment and judgement to it and make it our own, that is living, that can learn to deal with the world that exists.

    We should of course not deny ourselves the ability to perceive the world that actually exists. That is part of the nurtuing of Correct Vision, and therefore, as you know, a necessary part of the Eightfold Way.

    That includes awareness of faults, as well as of unfounded perceptions of faults, and _also_, when the other parts of the Eightfold Way are considered, the honest intent to improve the accuracy of our perceptions when the possibility presents itself.

    It is certainly true that what we personally see as right and as wrong will not always, or even all that frequently, coincide with what others see. That is a permanent challenge, not to be taken lightly. But we should also understand and nurture the fact that nonetheless mutual understanding, cooperation and honest good will and still possible, can be developed, and if anything are that much more praiseworthy because they require honest effort.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,742
    Ratings:
    +7,703
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    I’ve often wondered what it would be like to have a guru. More accurately, I wonder how well I’d receive one.

    I struggle with taking what I’m told at face value. Even if someone tells me something that appears on the surface to be true, I have to test it and make it my own experience before I accept it.

    I’m the type that will experience something and pick it apart through research to understand it. Like I said above, I can know the what, but I am driven to know the why/how. I knew the what before I began reading the Upanishads, but read them anyway, because I wanted to know how and why.

    It’s like when I was 8, I had a mini bike. I knew what it did how to use it, but I took it apart to the last bolt, engine and all, because I had to know how it did what it did.
     
  16. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    I think your thought of how a Guru would work for you, and your picking apart everything would please a Guru who was speaking with you :) It is important to pick apart even spiritual teachings :)
    Buddha once said something like: "If you can find something in the teaching you disagree with or can not accept, then leave it because it can not enlighten you" This was my take on how Buddha said it, not his exact words :)
     
    #16 Amanaki, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    In christianity, the inherited sin kind, reading the bible exasperates and over emphasis the imperfection of the world. They personify that imperfection in the needs to be saved from it by reading more of the bible.

    The (Buddha's) Dharma mentions that we are all reborn with a clear mind but our environment and state of mind are like "dirt" to clarity. So, we go life to life (or we continue without mentally dying) trying to clear away the dirt. So, the suttas mention the nature of life and the dirt.

    It literally talks about the imperfection of the world and how it affects us as humans in our mind and actions.

    I don't know about other scriptures, a lot of people go through a problem, put their finger in scripture, find a solution to the imperfect world, and the confirmation goes in a circle.

    I don't know any religion that doesn't seem some fault in the world, in people, in one's mind, or relationship to their environment.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,373
    Ratings:
    +12,552
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Lot's of folks can't receive or accept a Guru because they can't admit that there might be somebody wiser than them. Yet we accept doctors, engineers, lawyers, plumbers, and many others as being smarter than us in their field. Turn that field to inner mysticism and spirituality, and there seems to be a barrier. At one time I probably had that barrier, although it's been so long ago I can hardly remember.

    Yes. we're encouraged to test everything for ourselves in my sampradaya.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    6,742
    Ratings:
    +7,703
    Religion:
    Advaitist Hindu
    Not sure if that accurately describes me. I certainly don't operate on the assumption that there is no one wiser than me. I just question everything, including doctors, etc.

    Not accepting things blindly or at face value doesn't necessarily equate to or imply arrogance.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,808
    Ratings:
    +4,471
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    With all seriousness, can you give an example of "perfect scripture"? Every bit of scripture I've ever encountered is logically inconsistent with itself.

    It seems to me that people who are well intended and who rely on scripture, must be interpreting the scripture through a philosophical, moral and ethical foundation that they had before they encountered the scripture. Armed with that foundation, they can find verses that reinforce what they already believed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...