Question About Matthew 2:9

[Skwim]

Consider:

Matthew 2:1-11 (RSV)
1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.” 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:

6
‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will govern my people Israel.’”

7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared; 8 and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” 9 When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; 11 and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

​

Question: In as much as Herod's temple in Jerusalem is only about 5 miles from Bethlehem

​

a) Exactly how could a star, which would be at least 4.22 light-years* from Earth be seen to move five miles

b) and then stop?




* the closest star to earth, Proxima Centauri.

.

 

[Enoch07]

a) Exactly how could a star, which would be at least 4.22 light-years* from Earth be seen to move five miles

b) and then stop?

The word star in Matthew doesn't necessarily mean a literal star in the sky, though it can, just depends.

Another figurative meaning of the word for star is angel.

So my understanding it was an angel they followed in that night sky, perhaps disguised to look like a real star even, as to not draw unwanted attention.

Yeup that's my understanding of it.

 

[sooda]

Consider:

Matthew 2:1-11 (RSV)
1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.” 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:

6
‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will govern my people Israel.’”

7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared; 8 and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” 9 When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; 11 and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

​

Question: In as much as Herod's temple in Jerusalem is only about 5 miles from Bethlehem

View attachment 28986

​

a) Exactly how could a star, which would be at least 4.22 light-years* from Earth be seen to move five miles

b) and then stop?




* the closest star to earth, Proxima Centauri.

.

There are TWO Bethlehems. One is about 90 miles north of Jerusalem.. which is a long haul on a donkey when you're in you third trimester.

 

[sooda]

The word star in Matthew doesn't necessarily mean a literal star in the sky, though it can, just depends.

Another figurative meaning of the word for star is angel.

So my understanding it was an angel they followed in that night sky, perhaps disguised to look like a real star even as to not draw unwanted attention.

Yeup that's my understanding of it.

Where does it say anything like "So my understanding it was an angel they followed in that night sky, perhaps disguised to look like a real star even as to not draw unwanted attention."

"

 

[Enoch07]

Where does it say anything like "So my understanding it was an angel they followed in that night sky, perhaps disguised to look like a real star even as to not draw unwanted attention."

Your attempt to troll has failed.

Carry on.

 

[Deeje]

The word star in Matthew doesn't necessarily mean a literal star in the sky, though it can, just depends.

The magi were Babylonian astrologers who said that they has seen "his star" in the East and followed it to Jerusalem where it led them. Only after Herod had been alerted did the star move again and lead the magi to Bethlehem where it stopped directly above the house where Jesus was living with his parents. They were never at the stable.

No ordinary star this....and definitely not sent by God. The visit of the magi to King Herod set in motion the events that led to the murder of all the infants two years of age and under in Bethlehem.

Another figurative meaning of the word for star is angel.

Angel or demon? It was a light that they mistook for a star.

So my understanding it was an angel they followed in that night sky, perhaps disguised to look like a real star even as to not draw unwanted attention.

Yeup that's my understanding of it.

Not my understanding at all I'm afraid. The birth of Christ was revealed to Jewish shepherds who traveled to Bethlehem to see the newborn King......so why would God alert worshippers of foreign deities. whose practices were detestable to him, to such an important event? (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) By the time the magi arrived, Jesus was about 2 years old and living in a house. The reason we know this is because of the expensive gifts they brought....gold, frankincense and myrrh. If the magi had arrived at the stable, then Mary and Joseph would not have presented just two small turtledoves as their offering at the temple.....the offering of the poor.

I believe that the magi were dupes used by the devil in an attempt to do away with Jesus before he even had a chance to grow up. Herod would not allow any successors to his throne except this own sons. The fact that God sent the astrologers home via another route shows that they had no evil intent. They had come to honor a new king, (as was their custom) not to worship Jesus as a god.

 

[Enoch07]

Angel or demon? It was a light that they mistook for a star.

Fallen angel, demon same thing.

But yah I didn't think of it from that specific angle.

 

[Deeje]

Fallen angel, demon same thing.

But yah I didn't think of it from that specific angle.

Doesn't it make you wonder what else they have interpreted wrong? Look what pride of place that star gets at Christmas.....tell me where the Bible says to celebrate Christmas? The Jews did not celebrate birthdays, as confirmed by the fact that there are no birth dates recorded for Jesus or any other Jews. No one knows for sure when Jesus was born. They can roughly calculate but that's all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are TWO Bethlehems. One is about 90 miles north of Jerusalem.. which is a long haul on a donkey when you're in you third trimester.

The problem with the northern Bethlehem is that it is not in Judea. That fails for Luke's Nativity since (which of course has its own problems) since the Census of Quirinius was limited to Judea. It did not affect Galilee. Of course there would have been no sane reason for the two to go to Bethlehem in Judea at any rate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fallen angel, demon same thing.

But yah I didn't think of it from that specific angle.

Yes, magic solves all problems

 

[1213]

...
a) Exactly how could a star, which would be at least 4.22 light-years* from Earth be seen to move five miles

b) and then stop?
.

It depends on, what “star” means in that text. Also, it is a matter of point of view. Even if star is far, it can look like it would be on top of certain place. And in this case, it could have been a comet, or even an angel, as someone said. Star didn’t have scientific definition at that time. Almost all bright lights in the sky could have been called stars then. But probably it is impossible to understand for modern people, who live among many “film stars” and other “idols”?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Your attempt to troll has failed.

Carry on.

Since God can make the sun stand still for Joshua he can make a star lead people to Bethlehem should he want to, bending light, moving something looking like a modern understanding use of the word star which might be closer, etc...

A star be a more general term than the modern usage

The prophesy specified Bethlehem Ephrathah not the other Bethlehem (which was were the lambs often came from for the sacrifices in the temple )

"But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days."

 

[Left Coast]

Consider:

Matthew 2:1-11 (RSV)
1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him.” 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; 4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:

6
‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will govern my people Israel.’”

7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared; 8 and he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him bring me word, that I too may come and worship him.” 9 When they had heard the king they went their way; and lo, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy; 11 and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

​

Question: In as much as Herod's temple in Jerusalem is only about 5 miles from Bethlehem

View attachment 28986

​

a) Exactly how could a star, which would be at least 4.22 light-years* from Earth be seen to move five miles

b) and then stop?




* the closest star to earth, Proxima Centauri.

.

You're asking for a rational, scientific explanation for an obviously mythological story. You could pick an event on practically every page of the Gospels and ask a similar question.

Why do fundamentalists twist their brains into pretzels trying to make these stories plausible? That's a whole thread of its own.

 

[whirlingmerc]

You're asking for a rational, scientific explanation for an obviously mythological story. You could pick an event on practically every page of the Gospels and ask a similar question.

Why do fundamentalists twist their brains into pretzels trying to make these stories plausible? That's a whole thread of its own.

obviously mythical?

 

[Left Coast]

obviously mythical?

The origin story of a demi-god/savior figure in which completely implausible/magical things happen on every page? Yea, pretty obvious.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Yay! It appears at post #16 I get to be the one who says

 

[Subduction Zone]

Since God can make the sun stand still for Joshua he can make a star lead people to Bethlehem should he want to, bending light, moving something looking like a modern understanding use of the word star which might be closer, etc...

A star be a more general term than the modern usage

The prophesy specified Bethlehem Ephrathah not the other Bethlehem (which was were the lambs often came from for the sacrifices in the temple )

"But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days."

Magic solves everything.

Tell me, why believe the Joshua myth? Why take something literally that may have merely been a gross exaggeration?

 

[Skwim]

There are TWO Bethlehems. One is about 90 miles north of Jerusalem.. which is a long haul on a donkey when you're in you third trimester.

Yeah, it was the southern Bethlehem.

.

 

[sun rise]

For those that are not hung up on the modern definition of a star (in the sky) there are some "almost fit" possibilities plus what makes good sense to me:

The Astronomy Behind The Star Of Bethlehem

More than anything else, this shows the problems of astrological prophesy. While there isn't a single event that stands out as a clear origin to the Star of Bethlehem, there are lots of options that "kind of" fit after the fact. This is even true of the Gospel of Matthew itself. Matthew was written around 80 AD, decades after the events it describes, so the astronomical event it mentions would have been interpreted long after the Crucifixion and the rise of Christianity. Even if the author of Matthew felt the Star of Bethlehem was accurate history and not pious fiction, we'll likely never know the particular event they had in mind.

 

[Skwim]

The word star in Matthew doesn't necessarily mean a literal star in the sky, though it can, just depends.

It depends on, what “star” means in that text. Also, it is a matter of point of view. Even if star is far, it can look like it would be on top of certain place. And in this case, it could have been a comet, or even an angel, as someone said. Star didn’t have scientific definition at that time. Almost all bright lights in the sky could have been called stars then. But probably it is impossible to understand for modern people, who live among many “film stars” and other “idols”?

People, people. As I've pointed out so many times before, the scholars who assembled the English translations of the Bible used those words they felt best expressed the intended meaning of their source material. If they thought the source material intended its readers, whomever they may have been, to believe the "star" was a comet, an angel, or something other than a star, they would not have used a word that signified a star. But obviously they did mean a star because that's exactly what every one of the 51 Bibles I checked are telling its English readers their source material was saying.
This is why I cringe every time some amateur Christian apologist suggests that the real meaning of a particular word in the Bible can best be understood by looking up its old Hebrew. Aramaic, or Greek meaning. Balder poop! This would suggest that they, and even I, Skwim, are a better scholar and linguist than those academics who translated the Bible, and I would therefore be able to ferret out the "real" intended meaning of a word. Their ploy is blatantly obvious, and I don't buy it.

You're asking for a rational, scientific explanation for an obviously mythological story.

Never said a thing about asking for a scientific explanation. Looking for a rational explanation, yes, but not a scientific one.

You could pick an event on practically every page of the Gospels and ask a similar question.

Your exaggeration is duly noted.

.