Question about hadith

[FearGod]

How and why is my argument weak?

A child that is being weaned is also by definition being breastfed. The only way that both breastfeeding and weaning can last 2 years is if a child starts being weaned to solid food from its first day of birth. We both know that does not happen.



You are comparing an opinion survey to medical studies that show that children who are breastfed for less than two years, especially in developing countries, risk deaths and diseases. There is evidence of children who were breastfed for 2 or more years living longer and being healthier than children who were breastfed for less than 23 months.

Currently, more and more people in the United States are in favour of legalizing marijuana.
Legalize it, poll shows - The Washington Post

Does that mean marijuana is good for you?

Sorry that i have to end my argument with you as it's a waste of time, accept my apology.

 

[TG123456]

Sorry that i have to end my argument with you as it's a waste of time, accept my apology.

Not to reason to apologize at all, my friend, you have to do what you have to do.

I will just restate my points for the benefit of those who are reading our discourse.

Muhammad stated that the sun takes a break from its daily orbit of gliding, so it can stay in a place and prostrate under God's throne, before it is given permission to rise again. It then rises, sets, and again breaks to prostrate in a specific place before continuing.

Both Fear_God and I know this hadith does not make sense. He rejects it because it conflicts with the Quran that does not say that the sun stop but that it is running on a course. I responded there is nothing in the Quran that states the course cannot involve stopping.

Fear_God is unable to accept the possibility that Muhammad may have made a mistake in his teachings about God, therefore those hadiths attributed to him that he finds false or silly, he rejects. He does this even if other Muslim scholars have found them to be sound.


Fear_God claims there is no error in the Quran.

I presented with the examples of 46:15 and 31:14. One of these verses states that weaning is within 2 years and the other that gestation and weaning is 30 months.

This leaves us with the problem that gestation allegedly lasts 6 months, which is not true.

Fear_God responded by stating that for a child born on time (9 months), 21 months of weaning is precribed and for a child born at 6 months, a whole two years would be prescribed.

The problem with this that according to the WHO, all children should be breastfed for 2 or more years, especially in developing countries. Setting 2 years as the maximum time for breastfeeding can mean harming a child. Why the Quran' author would give parents advice that would harm their kids has not been addressed.

Fear_God provided an opinion survey in an attempt to refute the findings of doctors who have discovered that in developing countries especially, the difference between feeding for 2 or more years and not, can equal death.


The other problem is that there are verses in the Quran stating that the term of suckling is two years, and others that state weaning is two years. The obvious problem with this is that they both cannot be two years, since weaning involves suckling.


Fear_God has chosen to discontinue the conversation, which is his decision and which I will respect. Others who are interested are free to join in.


Allahma3k. May He lead us all to Him.

TG123456

 

[TashaN]

Salaam Alaikum. The hadiths below are from Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari.

Muhammad asked Abu Dharr if he knows where the sun goes at sunset. Abu Dharr had no idea, so Muhammad told him that it glides until it reaches it's "resting place", and then prostrates under God's throne until permission is given for it to rise up and come back to the place from where it came, so it goes up again and glides back until it reaches its resting place where it prostrates and then is given permission to rise again.


(1) Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) (Book #54, Hadith #421)

(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)


How could Muhammad have said such a thing?

We know that the sun is in constant motion, though different from the earth. It is always moving, though its movement has nothing to do with sunrise or sunset.

Interestingly enough, during two days a year, during what is called the winter solstice, it does actually pause in its orbit.

On Dec. 21, the sun stops moving southward, pauses, and then starts moving northward. This pause is called the "solstice," from the Latin words "sol" for "sun" and "sisto" for "stop." Similarly, on June 21 the sun stops moving northward and starts moving southward.

Winter Solstice: The Sun Stands Still on Saturday

This however happens twice a year. According to what Muhammad taught, the sun pauses once every 24 hours.

We know that what we call "sunrise" is caused by the earth moving around the sun, not the sun gliding until it reaches its resting place, where it prostrates until it is given permission to move again.

How did Muhammad get the idea to tell his followers that the sun's movement is what causes what we call "sunrise", and that every 24 hours, after it sets, it stops moving and remains in a certain place before going on its way to rise again?

I am really not trying to be insulting, but I would be interested in hearing what Muslims think about this.

That's really interesting. Thank you for bringing this up. Everyday i'm learning new things as i discuss with you about various topics in Islam because i go and search about it and increase my knowledge about Islam. Then i also share knowledge with my brothers and sisters in Islam here in the process.

To answer your question, the hadith is Sahih.

Let's consider this verse first:

Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the hills, the trees, the animals, and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace, none can rise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.
Quran (22:18)

So, it's not only about the sun. Everything between heaven and earth bow down to Allah and a great number of mankind as well since not all mankind are Muslims.

So, they all do so, but how they do it differ from each other. For example, we live on earth and what is considered a day on earth is different than what is considered a day in other planets and outer space in general as you know. Also the way human bow down is different than how other creatures bow down in worship to God.

In the same manner when it comes to the hadith, it's very clear that a day to us is different than a day to a sun, and a day to Allah.

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
Quran (36:38).

I hope that answered your question.

 

[TG123456]

That's really interesting. Thank you for bringing this up. Everyday i'm learning new things as i discuss with you about various topics in Islam because i go and search about it and increase my knowledge about Islam. Then i also share knowledge with my brothers and sisters in Islam here in the process.

To answer your question, the hadith is Sahih.

Let's consider this verse first:

Seest thou not that to Allah bow down in worship all things that are in the heavens and on earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, the hills, the trees, the animals, and a great number among mankind? But a great number are (also) such as are fit for Punishment: and such as Allah shall disgrace, none can rise to honour: for Allah carries out all that He wills.
Quran (22:18)

So, it's not only about the sun. Everything between heaven and earth bow down to Allah and a great number of mankind as well since not all mankind are Muslims.

So, they all do so, but how they do it differ from each other. For example, we live on earth and what is considered a day on earth is different than what is considered a day in other planets and outer space in general as you know. Also the way human bow down is different than how other creatures bow down in worship to God.

In the same manner when it comes to the hadith, it's very clear that a day to us is different than a day to a sun, and a day to Allah.

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.
Quran (36:38).

I hope that answered your question.

Salaam Alaikum, TashaN. I am glad the discussions are educational for you, they are very much so for me and I also am learning a lot.

I don't dispute the idea that every creature except rebellious or ignorant humans bow down to God, He is definitely the Creator of everything.

What I am disputing is the statement that the sun, which is in constant motion except for 2 or 3 days of the year, stops "gliding" once every 24 hours and remains in a certain spot. Also, the sun's movement has nothing to do with sunrise or sunset, these things are determined by the earth movement, not the movement of the sun.

1) Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) (Book #54, Hadith #421)

(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

 

[TashaN]

Salaam Alaikum, TashaN. I am glad the discussions are educational for you, they are very much so for me and I also am learning a lot.

I don't dispute the idea that every creature except rebellious or ignorant humans bow down to God, He is definitely the Creator of everything.

What I am disputing is the statement that the sun, which is in constant motion except for 2 or 3 days of the year, stops "gliding" once every 24 hours and remains in a certain spot. Also, the sun's movement has nothing to do with sunrise or sunset, these things are determined by the earth movement, not the movement of the sun.

1) Narrated Abu Dhar: The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing." (36.38) (Book #54, Hadith #421)

(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Did the Quran or hadith states it's being done every 24 hours?

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum. I will reply to this post in a few days, inshAllah.

 

[TashaN]

No problem.

 

[TG123456]

Did the Quran or hadith states it's being done every 24 hours?

It allegedly glides, rests in prostration, rises, glides, rests in prostration, rises, glides, rests in prostration, etc.

What is the time period between two sunrises? Usually about 24 hours, at least in Arizona.

Phoenix, Arizona - Sunrise Sunset Calendar


1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

 

[TashaN]

It allegedly glides, rests in prostration, rises, glides, rests in prostration, rises, glides, rests in prostration, etc.

What is the time period between two sunrises? Usually about 24 hours, at least in Arizona.

Phoenix, Arizona - Sunrise Sunset Calendar


1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said: Do you know where the sun goes? They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the throne. Then it would be said to it: Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith. (Book #001, Hadith #0297)

Search the word sun throne in the Hadith (Hadis) Books (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan Abu-Dawud, and Malik's Muwatta)

Can you please answer my question?

Did the hadith state it's 24 hours?

 

[TG123456]

Can you please answer my question?

Did the hadith state it's 24 hours?

The hadith stated that the sun rises, glides to it places of rest and prostrates, then rises, glides to its place of rest and prostrates, then continues so on.

The prostration and remaining in one place happens between each sunrise. The sun rises approximately every 24 hours. So Muhammad said that the sun stops and remains at a certain place once every 24 hours at least.

 

[TashaN]

The hadith stated that the sun rises, glides to it places of rest and prostrates, then rises, glides to its place of rest and prostrates, then continues so on.

The prostration and remaining in one place happens between each sunrise. The sun rises approximately every 24 hours. So Muhammad said that the sun stops and remains at a certain place once every 24 hours at least.

You still didn't answer my question. Does the hadith says it's every 24 hours?

 

[TG123456]

You still didn't answer my question. Does the hadith says it's every 24 hours?

It doesn't.

How much time passes between each sunrise in Arabia?

 

[TashaN]

It doesn't.

How much time passes between each sunrise in Arabia?

Alhamdulilah. I think we are done here.

 

[TG123456]

Alhamdulilah. I think we are done here.

I respect your decision to not continue the debate, my friend.

Before we finish it, may I ask you how much time do you think passes between one sunrise and other one that follows it?

 

[Abdu Samad]

Our three Questions to hadith followers:

Can you show us any verse in Quran where Allah says: follow Mohammad(S) or Companion or Tabe’een or Taba-Tabe’een or his hadith or his Sunna or Hadith Imams?

Why hadith Book like Bukhari was not compiled by Prophet or Abu Bakar or Omar or Uthman or Ali? why so late after 250 yrs?

Did prophet leave for you any written manuscript of his hadith and Sunna?

Note: Answer should be to the point and please do not tell us stories of North and South. Be specific