Question about God and the Bible and Jesus

[Frank Goad]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

 

[74x12]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

Answered this already in my thread called "God is love but also a Consuming Fire" read that post there for more context. I'll just take this part out to answer your question.

Why would God need Jesus' blood just to forgive us? It is to satisfy His fiery nature. On one hand God desires to forgive; but must satisfy the consuming Fire which demands justice. So what to do? God is trapped because He has to destroy us against His own will! --His will is to show us mercy-- But love has a way. God came in the likeness of a human being to die for our sins. So we may be forgiven. Jesus blood is proof of the true love of God.

In other words it's because God is not only love; but He also is called "consuming fire" and this part of His nature demands justice or payment for sins. So in order to make His love prevail and yet satisfy justice/vengeance at the same time. God was manifest in the flesh to take our sins on Himself. This was the terrible price He was willing to pay in order to forgive us and yet not contradict His own holiness.

 

[susanblange]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

Jesus is Satan's counterfeit messiah. He died "the deaths of the uncircumcised". Ezekiel 28:10. Nobody can die for your sin except yourself. Deuteronomy 24:16. Jesus has been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated and this time he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19. The only way into Heaven is righteousness and right now it doesn't matter what religion you are. The wicked and the righteous come in all races, creeds, and colors.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How else would they guilt trip people into following it?

 

[LiveBetterLife]

Most people in those days were exponentially more stupid than us.

The Scriptures play to their audience.

 

[Desert Snake]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

This varies by church interpretation.
John 10
Describes how Jesus is actually performing a Spiritual Sacrifice, conditional to the Believers, 'my sheep' thusly this isn't 'a sacrifice by g-d', at all, regardless of how literal one takes the aspects of the sacrifice to be, ie the Crucifixion, and whether Jesus knew or doubted , so forth.

That's how the Scripture reads.

Now, of course this isn't a 'priestly sacrifice', either, another wacky teaching by some christians; those who teach that, are trying to justify an interpretation that the priestly laws were perfect, and perfected via the sacrifice by Jesus. These churches have interpreted John calling Jesus a lamb, and, how 'bad reveals good' idea found for example in Galatians, as this being a "priestly sacrifice".
The priestly sacrifice being considered g-dly, they thusly correlate the Sacrifice by Jesus, as a sacrifice by g-d'.

I would say that unless this is a sacrifice by Jesus, in a specific context, there are alot of problems with other ideas.

Jesus died for our sins, but we didn't sacrifice Jesus, in other words. [A wordly, literal priestly sacrifice is bizarre, as far as I'm concerned.

Shalom

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

My view? Some of you may not like it.

Jesus was liberated, which is to say his experiences led to a release of attachments to relative reality. He fulfilled his dharma through an act of selflessness for what he perceived would lead to the betterment of those who hadn't shared such experiences.

 

[pearl]

Why did Jesus have to die

He succumbed to the establishment of the times as did many prophets.

 

[Desert Snake]

Answered this already in my thread called "God is love but also a Consuming Fire" read that post there for more context. I'll just take this part out to answer your question.

Why would God need Jesus' blood just to forgive us? It is to satisfy His fiery nature. On one hand God desires to forgive; but must satisfy the consuming Fire which demands justice. So what to do? God is trapped because He has to destroy us against His own will! --His will is to show us mercy-- But love has a way. God came in the likeness of a human being to die for our sins. So we may be forgiven. Jesus blood is proof of the true love of God.

In other words it's because God is not only love; but He also is called "consuming fire" and this part of His nature demands justice or payment for sins. So in order to make His love prevail and yet satisfy justice/vengeance at the same time. God was manifest in the flesh to take our sins on Himself. This was the terrible price He was willing to pay in order to forgive us and yet not contradict His own holiness.

Your best argument comes from the book of Matthew, however, you encointer a gigantic problem with that idea, because then it separates the Tetragrammaton from 'g-d', you derive a different g-d from the Tetragrammaton. Now, some churches using the 'father, son, Spirit' trinity concept, are fine with that. It basically makes Jesus the Tetragrammaton , and 'g-d' the 'father'. This can be argued from Scripture, however many if not most call or consider the Tetragrammaton to be the father, especially nowadays, so, note how it is a contradiction.
Going to non-christian interpretation, again, it's a problem because God is either called the Tetragrammaton, JHVH, or, it's inferred, by 'Lord God'. In other words Jesus in that context, is considered God, so this can't be a literal parallel type of sacrifice, by the father.

Again, both ideas can be argued, however in a Judaic religion context, it doesn't really work.

By Biblical reductionism, I don't believe it works, in other words. Even if we take this to minimum of texts, required for correlation, it's either, Jesus is a self sacrifice, or, the g'd is different from the Judaic g-d.
If one wants to keep the idea of Jesus 'being sacrificed', by deity,
they can
• argue that the Tetragrammaton isn't the father,
• argue that jesus is a rabbi , who their deity sacrifices, a different deity from the jewish deity claim,
• argue a priestly sacrifice, thereby inferring that they would follow all the priestly rules, as the priests didn't believe in Jesus, therefore otherwise a contradiction
• argue that although jesus is a g-d , the father is another deity who sacrifices him

In other words, basically, if you are calling the father, the Tetragrammaton, it doesn't work, and, if you are calling 'G-d' the Tetragrammaton, it doesn't work, and, if you are calling Jesus 'God', it doesn't work

How can god forsake Himself, is another argument, and necessitates the father not being the Tetragrammaton .


Shalom

 

[Kenny]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

In my understanding which wouldn't violate God's all-knowing and all-powerful capability:

1) God gave the earth to man to have dominion. When He gave the dominion to man in essence He was saying "I will work only in partnership with man as man is the door to operating in the earth.
2) Thus, the only way for the Serpent to gain entrance into the earth was through permission of the man as man willfully decide to follow the Serpents dictates
3) Notice that demons always seek to influence and, in some cases possession, of man to work on the earth.
4) in as much as man is the door, The Word had to become man to legally operate on the earth
5) The Word had to legally arrest back the authority that Adam gave the Serpent since God is a God of order and could not violate His own dictates.
6) Only God had the capacity to absorb the sin of mankind and still remain solvent.

 

[leov]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

There two type of souls, Paul speaks of two temples, tents, in one , made by hands, purification of sins happens with animal blood and by pattern blood of Jesus in another tabernacle not made with human hands in heaven purification of consciousness happens through spiritual blood of Christ. First group of souls , the called, do not understand spiritual blood of Christ ( like the saints, spiritual) but understand physical blood of Jesus. This is symbolism of sacrifice. Heb. 9.

 

[74x12]

Your best argument comes from the book of Matthew, however, you encointer a gigantic problem with that idea, because then it separates the Tetragrammaton from 'g-d', you derive a different g-d from the Tetragrammaton. Now, some churches using the 'father, son, Spirit' trinity concept, are fine with that. It basically makes Jesus the Tetragrammaton , and 'g-d' the 'father'. This can be argued from Scripture, however many if not most call or consider the Tetragrammaton to be the father, especially nowadays, so, note how it is a contradiction.
Going to non-christian interpretation, again, it's a problem because God is either called the Tetragrammaton, JHVH, or, it's inferred, by 'Lord God'. In other words Jesus in that context, is considered God, so this can't be a literal parallel type of sacrifice, by the father.

Again, both ideas can be argued, however in a Judaic religion context, it doesn't really work.

By Biblical reductionism, I don't believe it works, in other words. Even if we take this to minimum of texts, required for correlation, it's either, Jesus is a self sacrifice, or, the g'd is different from the Judaic g-d.
If one wants to keep the idea of Jesus 'being sacrificed', by deity,
they can
• argue that the Tetragrammaton isn't the father,
• argue that jesus is a rabbi , who their deity sacrifices, a different deity from the jewish deity claim,
• argue a priestly sacrifice, thereby inferring that they would follow all the priestly rules, as the priests didn't believe in Jesus, therefore otherwise a contradiction
• argue that although jesus is a g-d , the father is another deity who sacrifices him

In other words, basically, if you are calling the father, the Tetragrammaton, it doesn't work, and, if you are calling 'G-d' the Tetragrammaton, it doesn't work, and, if you are calling Jesus 'God', it doesn't work

Right now it's really hard for me to follow along with your reasoning on this. Sorry, but I don't see how you have come to the conclusions that you have come to. I think I need more context.

To help you better understand my own beliefs. I don't believe in distinct persons within the divine nature. I only believe in one person of God who is manifest in the Son: Jesus. So, the Son of God was the person of God manifest in human form. He was called the Son because He is born of the holy Spirit.

There is no need for a trinity doctrine to interpret scripture.

How can god forsake Himself, is another argument, and necessitates the father not being the Tetragrammaton .


Shalom

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 of course. As for how God forsook Him. I think that perhaps God must withdraw His protection for Jesus to die. This is evidenced by the fact that Jesus dies right after saying this. He cries out one more time and gives up the ghost. The veil in the temple was torn at the same time which is symbolic of course. If Jesus body is the temple of the holy Spirit; then God symbolically left the temple at the same time He literally left the body of Jesus. Even Jesus claimed no one could take His life unless He lays it down Himself. (John 10:18)

 

[Desert Snake]

Right now it's really hard for me to follow along with your reasoning on this. Sorry, but I don't see how you have come to the conclusions that you have come to. I think I need more context.

To help you better understand my own beliefs. I don't believe in distinct persons within the divine nature. I only believe in one person of God who is manifest in the Son: Jesus. So, the Son of God was the person of God manifest in human form. He was called the Son because He is born of the holy Spirit.

There is no need for a trinity doctrine to interpret scripture.

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22 of course. As for how God forsook Him. I think that perhaps God must withdraw His protection for Jesus to die. This is evidenced by the fact that Jesus dies right after saying this. He cries out one more time and gives up the ghost. The veil in the temple was torn at the same time which is symbolic of course. If Jesus body is the temple of the holy Spirit; then God symbolically left the temple at the same time He literally left the body of Jesus. Even Jesus claimed no one could take His life unless He lays it down Himself. (John 10:18)

Ah, yes I agree, there can't be a division in the Triune.

 

[Moz]

Why did Jesus have to die?If God is all knowing.And all powerful.And everywhere.Why couldn't he just find another way to save Humanity?

In the beginning a perfect man chose disobedience calling into questions Gods right to make the rules. The consequence of this rebellion against the natural order was death.
God's answer was to send another perfect man who chose obedience( Gen3:15) to resolve the issue.

Why couldn't he find another way?
Well God did not manufacture or predestine the events that transpired in Eden. His solution had to take into account both the heavenly aspect of the situation, rebellious angels, and the earthly side. His solution of allowing both situations to be rectified through the example of christs obedience was the best way.