Question about 28:4 to Muslim posters

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum.

This is a question to Muslim posters, preferably Arabic speakers.

Can you please tell me is what exists below is a correct translation of the ayah? I am particularly interested in the part in red.

Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.

If the translation is incorrect, can you provide a better one?

If it is a correct one, can you please explain what it means?

Thanks so much!

 

[Woodrow LI]

wa alaikum Salaam

Good to see you here my friend.

I already know where you are heading with this. But I will just reply:

the translation is reasonably accurate. It can't be improved upon.

 

[TG123456]

LOL Great to see you also, my friend. I didn't know you post here, as well as on ChristianForums!

Alaikum salaam!

Thanks for the response.

If the translation is accurate and can't be improved on, is this not a mistake in the Quran?

The author is stating that the Pharaoh of Moses made the people of the land (Egypt) into factions.

However, as we already know, the Egyptian society already existed as factions prior to Pharaoh taking power.

The Pharaoh of the Exodus, regardless of whether he was Ramses II or Tuthmosis III (the only two Pharaohs who would fit into the Quranic narrative), presided over a nation in which people already existed as factions.

Ancient Egyptian society had many divisions. At the top was the Pharaoh, followed by the viziers. Nobles and priests made up the third level, followed by scribes and soldiers. Below them were craftsmen and at the very bottom were slaves and peasants.

The Egyptians - Society | HistoryOnTheNet

You couldn't ask for a society that was more factionalized than this. This system was not introduced by either Ramses II or Tuthmosis III, but existed for centuries prior to their reigns.

The statement from the Quran that Pharaoh "made the people into factions" is not true. He could not "make" something that existed already.

 

[DawudTalut]

Salaam Alaikum.

This is a question to Muslim posters, preferably Arabic speakers.

Can you please tell me is what exists below is a correct translation of the ayah? I am particularly interested in the part in red.

Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.

If the translation is incorrect, can you provide a better one?

If it is a correct one, can you please explain what it means?

Thanks so much!

Peace be on you.
Holy Quran [28:5] or {28:4} as you referred :

[28:5] Verily, Pharaoh behaved arrogantly in the earth, and divided the people thereof into parties: he sought to weaken a party of them, slaying their sons, and sparing their women. Certainly, he was of the mischief- makers.
Ref: alislam.org/quran

Commentary @ note 2879 @ The Holy Quran

wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/quran/tafseer/?page=1996&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

 

[TG123456]

Peace be upon you also, DawudTalut.

How could the Pharaoh have divided the people into sections, if they were divided already?

The Ahmadiyya commentary of the verse states that Pharaoh "split the people of Egypt into parties and sections, and had made invidious distinctions between them. Some of them he favoured, others he exploited and suppressed.". The policy is likened to that of the European colonists who used "divide and rule".

This obviously means that the Pharaoh, like the colonists, created divisions among people.

However, the people of Egypt were divided into various sections and classes long before Ramses II. He didn't "split" them, they were like that long before he came to the throne.

 

[Woodrow LI]

LOL Great to see you also, my friend. I didn't know you post here, as well as on ChristianForums!

Alaikum salaam!

Thanks for the response.

If the translation is accurate and can't be improved on, is this not a mistake in the Quran?

The author is stating that the Pharaoh of Moses made the people of the land (Egypt) into factions.

However, as we already know, the Egyptian society already existed as factions prior to Pharaoh taking power.

The Pharaoh of the Exodus, regardless of whether he was Ramses II or Tuthmosis III (the only two Pharaohs who would fit into the Quranic narrative), presided over a nation in which people already existed as factions.

Ancient Egyptian society had many divisions. At the top was the Pharaoh, followed by the viziers. Nobles and priests made up the third level, followed by scribes and soldiers. Below them were craftsmen and at the very bottom were slaves and peasants.

The Egyptians - Society | HistoryOnTheNet

You couldn't ask for a society that was more factionalized than this. This system was not introduced by either Ramses II or Tuthmosis III, but existed for centuries prior to their reigns.

The statement from the Quran that Pharaoh "made the people into factions" is not true. He could not "make" something that existed already.

As I am not qualified to give Tafsir all I can do is give my limited opinion.

This is based only own personal findings. First things to look at are When was the Surah revealed. To whom was it directed and what is the message of the surah.

I will use the easy way and copy from Maududi. While I disagree with Maududi's political views He has given what is probably the most accurate Tafsir in English.

There were 3 related surat revealed almost simultaneously Ash-Shu`araa', An-Naml and Al- Qasas . Combined giving a condensed history of Egypt and Moses.

Period of Revelation

As already mentioned in the introduction to Surah An Naml, according to Ibn Abbas and Jabir bin Zaid, Surahs Ash-Shu`araa', An-Naml and Al- Qasas were sent down one after the other. The language, the style and the theme also show that the period of the revelation of these three Surahs is nearly the same. Another reason for their lose resemblance is that the different parts of the Prophet Moses story as mentioned in these surahs together make up a complete story. In Surah Ash-Shu`araa', excusing himself for not accepting the office of Prophethood the Prophet Moses submits, "The people of Pharaoh have the charge of a crime against me; therefore, I fear that they will put me to death." Then, when lie goes before Pharaoh, the latter says, "Did we not bring you up as a child in our house? You lived quite a few years of your life among us, and then you did what you did." Nothing more of this has been mentioned there, but in this Surah the other details have been supplied. Similarly, in Surah An-Naml the story starts abruptly from the time when the Prophet Moses was journeying with his family and suddenly saw a fire at a distance. In that Surah nothing has been said about the nature of his journey, or the place he was coming from, or his destination, but this Surah supplies all the necessary details. Thus, the three Surahs read together complete the story of the Prophet Moses (Allah's peace be upon him).

Keep in mind many of the people being spoken to would have been Christians or Jews familiar with the stories of Moses. These were a short Reader's digest condensed version as a reminder not as a lesson.

Over all the intended audience and the message given was

In the first place, the narration of a two thousand year old historical event by the Holy Prophet with such accuracy and detail, is presented as a proof of his Prophethood although he was un-lettered and the people of his city and clan knew full well that he had no access to any source of such information as they could point out.

Then the disbelievers of Makkah have been warned and put to shame for an event that occurred in those very days. Some Christians had come to Makkah and embraced Islam when they heard the Qur'an from the Holy Prophet. Instead of learning any lesson from this the Makkans were so upset at this that their leader, Abu Jahl, disgraced those people publicly.

In conclusion, the excuse that the disbelievers put forward for not believing in the Holy Prophet has been dealt with. What they feared was this:"If we give up the polytheistic creed of the Arabs and accept the doctrine of Tauhid instead, this will put an end to our supremacy in the religious, political and economic fields, which, in turn, will destroy our position of the most influential tribe of Arabia and we shall be left with no refuge anywhere in the land." As this was the real motive of the chiefs of the Quraish for their antagonism towards the Truth, and their doubts and objections were only the pretenses, which they invented to deceive the common people, Allah has dealt with these fully till the end of the Surah, considered each aspect of these in a wise manner and offered the remedy for their basic ailment due to which those people judged the Truth and falsehood only from the viewpoint of their worldly interests.

Link to Maududi HERE

.

 

[forth and five]

Salaam Alaikum.

This is a question to Muslim posters, preferably Arabic speakers.

Can you please tell me is what exists below is a correct translation of the ayah? I am particularly interested in the part in red.

Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.

If the translation is incorrect, can you provide a better one?

If it is a correct one, can you please explain what it means?

Thanks so much![/QUOTE


the Qur'an is correct, the word pharaoh in ancient Egypt means the the house, it never was a name of the person.

the Qur'an does not contradict history, as history shows the Egyptians had many people come into the pharaoh and they divided there people.

the verses you speak about is only dealing with Moses and that pharaoh, it does not say that no pharaohs before never divided there people. The verse 28:3 saids it recite to you news Moses and pharaoh. Not news about the Egyptians.

 

[Woodrow LI]

the Qur'an is correct, the word pharaoh in ancient Egypt means the the house, it never was a name of the person.

the Qur'an does not contradict history, as history shows the Egyptians had many people come into the pharaoh and they divided there people.

the verses you speak about is only dealing with Moses and that pharaoh, it does not say that no pharaohs before never divided there people. The verse 28:3 saids it recite to you news Moses and pharaoh. Not news about the Egyptians.

Jazakallahu Khayran

Correct. I agree

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be upon you also, DawudTalut.

How could the Pharaoh have divided the people into sections, if they were divided already?

The Ahmadiyya commentary of the verse states that Pharaoh "split the people of Egypt into parties and sections, and had made invidious distinctions between them. Some of them he favoured, others he exploited and suppressed.". The policy is likened to that of the European colonists who used "divide and rule".

This obviously means that the Pharaoh, like the colonists, created divisions among people.

However, the people of Egypt were divided into various sections and classes long before Ramses II. He didn't "split" them, they were like that long before he came to the throne.

Peace be on you.
1) Holy Quran is not bound to follow human-found-narrated-history, it mentions real truth.

The dividing policy may have been going on since long But the particular Pharaoh mentioned here must had followed it vigorously as the verse itself mentions his various tactics.

2) According to Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi (on whom be peace), Quranic stories are not only the mention of past, they point to and remind incoming opposition and successes of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be on him) in one way or other.

 

[TG123456]

As I am not qualified to give Tafsir all I can do is give my limited opinion.

This is based only own personal findings. First things to look at are When was the Surah revealed. To whom was it directed and what is the message of the surah.

I will use the easy way and copy from Maududi. While I disagree with Maududi's political views He has given what is probably the most accurate Tafsir in English.

There were 3 related surat revealed almost simultaneously Ash-Shu`araa', An-Naml and Al- Qasas . Combined giving a condensed history of Egypt and Moses.



Keep in mind many of the people being spoken to would have been Christians or Jews familiar with the stories of Moses. These were a short Reader's digest condensed version as a reminder not as a lesson.

Over all the intended audience and the message given was



Link to Maududi HERE

.

Salaam Alaikum WoodrowLi, and thank you for providing the context of the surah and how it was revealed.

I don't see however how this addresses the fact that the Quran states Pharaoh made his society into factions, when we know it existed in this form before he came to power.

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum, forthandfive.

You wrote:

the Qur'an is correct, the word pharaoh in ancient Egypt means the the house, it never was a name of the person.

the Qur'an does not contradict history, as history shows the Egyptians had many people come into the pharaoh and they divided there people.

the verses you speak about is only dealing with Moses and that pharaoh, it does not say that no pharaohs before never divided there people. The verse 28:3 saids it recite to you news Moses and pharaoh. Not news about the Egyptians.

I would agree that many Pharaohs (if not all) discriminated against some citizens while treating others well, and if the verse simply said that the Pharaoh "was unjust", I would have no issue with it.

However, it states that he "made his people into factions". If you make something, you are clearly creating something that was not there before.

Let's look at some analogies.

We know that there is a horrific war taking place in Iraq, a war that has been continuously raging since the invasion of that country by the US and their allies. American and Coalition soldiers, Saddam Hussein's soldiers, Shia militias, Sunni militias, Al Qaeda, Kurdish groups have been fighting each other for the past decade, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died, many of them civilians. We also know that ISIS recently entered the war this year.

How accurate would it be to say:

"ISIS made the people of Iraq into a people affected by war"?

It would be complete and utter nonsense, since the war in Iraq has been raging for at least ten years before they showed up and added their brand of terror to an already terrorized people.


Another similar example would be to say:

"Saudi King Abdullah Abdul Aziz made the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims"

The inhabitants of Mecca had all been Muslim since the seventh century, more than a milennium before the most recent Saudi king ascended the throne. Sure, he may enforce laws that ensure only Muslims live in Mecca, but to say that he "made the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims" would be incorrect.

ISIS did not make Iraqis into a people affected by war. They were like that already.
Abdullah Abdul Aziz did not make the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims. They were like that already.
Pharaoh did not make the people of Egypt into factions. They were like that already.


If 28:3 is only about Moses and Pharaoh and not Moses and the Egyptians, then what land did Pharaoh rule? Which people did he make into factions, if not his people?

 

[TG123456]

Peace be on you.

Wa Alaikum salaam.

1) Holy Quran is not bound to follow human-found-narrated-history, it mentions real truth.

The dividing policy may have been going on since long But the particular Pharaoh mentioned here must had followed it vigorously as the verse itself mentions his various tactics.

He may have followed it vigorously, but by stating that Pharaoh "made the people into factions", it accuses him of introducing this system to his society. How can you "make" people into something that they existed as already?

If yesterday I just met someone has been drinking heavily for many years and is an alcoholic and I offered him a beer, I would be adding to the problem. However, I wouldn't have been the one who "made" him into being a drunk, he was like that before I made the stupid choice that I did.

2) According to Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi (on whom be peace), Quranic stories are not only the mention of past, they point to and remind incoming opposition and successes of Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be on him) in one way or other.

Cool, that is interesting.

I don't see though how this changes the fact that the Quran's author says Pharaoh "made his people into factions", when they were like that already.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Wa Alaikum salaam.

He may have followed it vigorously, but by stating that Pharaoh "made the people into factions", it accuses him of introducing this system to his society. How can you "make" people into something that they existed as already?

If yesterday I just met someone has been drinking heavily for many years and is an alcoholic and I offered him a beer, I would be adding to the problem. However, I wouldn't have been the one who "made" him into being a drunk, he was like that before I made the stupid choice that I did.


Cool, that is interesting.

I don't see though how this changes the fact that the Quran's author says Pharaoh "made his people into factions", when they were like that already.

What if I was speaking about English Royalty and Said "The Monarchy made India a commonwealth" it is obvious Queen Elizabeth had nothing to do with that, but the statement is still true.

 

[TG123456]

What if I was speaking about English Royalty and Said "The Monarchy made India a commonwealth" it is obvious Queen Elizabeth had nothing to do with that, but the statement is still true.

It would be a true statement, but it wouldn't be true if you continued in the same sentence, writing:

"The Monarchy exalted himself in the world and made India a commonwealth, indeed, he was one of the imperialists".
Especially, if you were to add later that the wife of the Monarchy found an Indian boy, and convinced him not to kill the child.

The Monarchy is a system, not a person.

Similarly, verses 4 and others before and after it make it clear that the reference to Pharaoh is reference to a person, not a system.

Let's look at 28:3-9

We recite to you from the news of Moses and Pharaoh in truth for a people who believe.
Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.
And We wanted to confer favor upon those who were oppressed in the land and make them leaders and make them inheritors
And establish them in the land and show Pharaoh and [his minister] Haman and their soldiers through them that which they had feared.
And We inspired to the mother of Moses, "Suckle him; but when you fear for him, cast him into the river and do not fear and do not grieve. Indeed, We will return him to you and will make him [one] of the messengers."
And the family of Pharaoh picked him up [out of the river] so that he would become to them an enemy and a [cause of] grief. Indeed, Pharaoh and Haman and their soldiers were deliberate sinners.
And the wife of Pharaoh said, "[He will be] a comfort of the eye for me and for you. Do not kill him; perhaps he may benefit us, or we may adopt him as a son." And they perceived not.

It wouldn't make sense to refer to a Monarch as a "he", and claim a wife for it.

28:4, when read in context of both itself and the following verses, makes it clear it is a reference to a person and not a monarchy or dynasty.

The blame for making Egyptians into sects is laid at the feet of Pharaoh, who also allegedly practiced infanticide against the Israelite babies, but whose wife allowed one of them to live in his household.

 

[forth and five]

Salaam Alaikum, forthandfive.

You wrote:

the Qur'an is correct, the word pharaoh in ancient Egypt means the the house, it never was a name of the person.

the Qur'an does not contradict history, as history shows the Egyptians had many people come into the pharaoh and they divided there people.

the verses you speak about is only dealing with Moses and that pharaoh, it does not say that no pharaohs before never divided there people. The verse 28:3 saids it recite to you news Moses and pharaoh. Not news about the Egyptians.

I would agree that many Pharaohs (if not all) discriminated against some citizens while treating others well, and if the verse simply said that the Pharaoh "was unjust", I would have no issue with it.

However, it states that he "made his people into factions". If you make something, you are clearly creating something that was not there before.

Let's look at some analogies.

We know that there is a horrific war taking place in Iraq, a war that has been continuously raging since the invasion of that country by the US and their allies. American and Coalition soldiers, Saddam Hussein's soldiers, Shia militias, Sunni militias, Al Qaeda, Kurdish groups have been fighting each other for the past decade, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died, many of them civilians. We also know that ISIS recently entered the war this year.

How accurate would it be to say:

"ISIS made the people of Iraq into a people affected by war"?

It would be complete and utter nonsense, since the war in Iraq has been raging for at least ten years before they showed up and added their brand of terror to an already terrorized people.


Another similar example would be to say:

"Saudi King Abdullah Abdul Aziz made the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims"

The inhabitants of Mecca had all been Muslim since the seventh century, more than a milennium before the most recent Saudi king ascended the throne. Sure, he may enforce laws that ensure only Muslims live in Mecca, but to say that he "made the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims" would be incorrect.

ISIS did not make Iraqis into a people affected by war. They were like that already.
Abdullah Abdul Aziz did not make the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims. They were like that already.
Pharaoh did not make the people of Egypt into factions. They were like that already.


If 28:3 is only about Moses and Pharaoh and not Moses and the Egyptians, then what land did Pharaoh rule? Which people did he make into factions, if not his people?

the verses in that surah you gave is talking about the pharaoh with regards to Moses and the people at only the time when he was killing the boys and leaving the women, it was only a certain time period not dealing with all the Egyptians that ever live.

the Egyptians did not live forever, so his oppression with his people during the time he controlled the house.

an example of him dividing his people, is when he had Moses and the magicians battle and when Moses won, some of his people left with Moses and the others stayed with him out of fear retaliation and some were loyal to him.

that is an example of him dividing his people.

 

[forth and five]

Wa Alaikum salaam.

He may have followed it vigorously, but by stating that Pharaoh "made the people into factions", it accuses him of introducing this system to his society. How can you "make" people into something that they existed as already?

If yesterday I just met someone has been drinking heavily for many years and is an alcoholic and I offered him a beer, I would be adding to the problem. However, I wouldn't have been the one who "made" him into being a drunk, he was like that before I made the stupid choice that I did.


Cool, that is interesting.

I don't see though how this changes the fact that the Quran's author says Pharaoh "made his people into factions", when they were like that already.

the word pharaoh means great house according to ancient Egyptians history, it is not the name of a person, the person fills the word pharaoh.

as you say this pharaoh who was at the time of Moses divided his people as well as others who ruled over the ancient Egyptians.

the Qur'an uses the word pharaoh which covers all times because the word means house or great house which existed thousands of years, the name of the ones who ruled over the great house ( pharaoh) the Qur'an does not name.

 

[TG123456]

the verses in that surah you gave is talking about the pharaoh with regards to Moses and the people at only the time when he was killing the boys and leaving the women, it was only a certain time period not dealing with all the Egyptians that ever live.

True, but this does not change the fact that it says Pharaoh made the people of the land he was ruling into sects. The land that Pharaoh was ruling was Egypt, and the people were those who lived in it.

Yet people living in Egypt existed as sects long before the Pharaoh who is described in the Quran appeared. He was not the one who made them into sects, like the current king of Saudi Arabia isn't the one who made the inhabitants of Mecca Muslims.

the Egyptians did not live forever, so his oppression with his people during the time he controlled the house.

True.

an example of him dividing his people, is when he had Moses and the magicians battle and when Moses won, some of his people left with Moses and the others stayed with him out of fear retaliation and some were loyal to him.

that is an example of him dividing his people.

Yet that happened after 28:4.

Also, did his people not exist as sects prior to the battle with Moses? Even his priests served different gods, so in this way, even were in sects before the battle with Moses.

 

[TG123456]

the word pharaoh means great house according to ancient Egyptians history, it is not the name of a person, the person fills the word pharaoh.

Correct. Pharaoh is a title for a person, correct? Like President, or King.

as you say this pharaoh who was at the time of Moses divided his people as well as others who ruled over the ancient Egyptians.

Unfortunately for the Quran's author, this is not true.

The Quran does not state, as you do, that the Pharaoh at the time of Moses divided his people into sects, like others before him did.

It states that Pharaoh "made the people into sects". This would clearly imply that before he did this, they were not in sects.

How is it possible to make something that is already in existence?

I work as a supply teacher, so I will give you an example from a school. Let's say I I come into a classroom full of kids who are quietly reading their books, and I say "read" to them, and they continue reading. Did I make them read? Of course not, they were reading already before I came in.

Mecca was a city inhabited only by Muslims long before the Saudi monarchy that is currently in power arrived, and he upholds the centuries old law that only Muslims are allowed to be in Mecca. Would it be accurate of me to say that "Saudi King Abdullah bin AbdulAziz bin Saud made the people of Mecca Muslims"? No, it was like that before he took over the throne.

Likewise, it is inaccurate to say that the Pharaoh mentioned in the Quran made the people of the land into factions. They existed as factions for centuries before he took power.

the Qur'an uses the word pharaoh which covers all times because the word means house or great house which existed thousands of years, the name of the ones who ruled over the great house ( pharaoh) the Qur'an does not name.

No, but from the details given, we know it had to have either been Ramses II or Tuthmoses III.

 

[forth and five]

Correct. Pharaoh is a title for a person, correct? Like President, or King.


Unfortunately for the Quran's author, this is not true.

The Quran does not state, as you do, that the Pharaoh at the time of Moses divided his people into sects, like others before him did.

It states that Pharaoh "made the people into sects". This would clearly imply that before he did this, they were not in sects.

How is it possible to make something that is already in existence?

I work as a supply teacher, so I will give you an example from a school. Let's say I I come into a classroom full of kids who are quietly reading their books, and I say "read" to them, and they continue reading. Did I make them read? Of course not, they were reading already before I came in.

Mecca was a city inhabited only by Muslims long before the Saudi monarchy that is currently in power arrived, and he upholds the centuries old law that only Muslims are allowed to be in Mecca. Would it be accurate of me to say that "Saudi King Abdullah bin AbdulAziz bin Saud made the people of Mecca Muslims"? No, it was like that before he took over the throne.

Likewise, it is inaccurate to say that the Pharaoh mentioned in the Quran made the people of the land into factions. They existed as factions for centuries before he took power.


No, but from the details given, we know it had to have either been Ramses II or Tuthmoses III.

I noticed you keep saying the people which implies all the people, but the Qur'an saids his people.

the Qur'an makes mention of the great house (pharaoh) and his host and how Moses was going to be a messenger to them.

the great house had their own family and the people they were over were not considered their people because the way to the pharaoh was through bloodline.

within the great house I don't know any priest at the time of Moses that was worshipping a different god than the ruler of the great house (pharaoh)

 

[TG123456]

Salaam Alaikum, forth and five.

I noticed you keep saying the people which implies all the people, but the Qur'an saids his people.

This is what the verse states:

Indeed, Pharaoh exalted himself in the land and made its people into factions, oppressing a sector among them, slaughtering their [newborn] sons and keeping their females alive. Indeed, he was of the corrupters.

What "land" did Pharaoh exalt himself in? Was it only in his palace? Or all of Ancient Egypt?

the Qur'an makes mention of the great house (pharaoh) and his host and how Moses was going to be a messenger to them.

the great house had their own family and the people they were over were not considered their people because the way to the pharaoh was through bloodline.

Are you saying that the Pharaohs of Egypt did not consider their subjects to be "their people"?

within the great house I don't know any priest at the time of Moses that was worshipping a different god than the ruler of the great house (pharaoh)

They were worshiping several gods, as well as Pharaoh himself.

If "the land" is a reference only to the palace of Pharaoh, are you saying he made the people of his palace into factions and began killing off their kids? How would the Israelites have gotten into his palace in the first place?

I may be completely misunderstanding your argument. If I am, please show me where I am wrong and accept my apologies.