Question about 12:20

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum FearGod, and thank you. Can you please give me a word for word translation of this part of the hadith? I noticed when I clicked on the link, that there is more to it. Can you please translate all of hadith 18936, and tell me which collection it is from? Thanks.

Unfortunately i didn't find English source for the same which is from Tabari collections of tafsir, i'll translate it at my best.

Arabic starts from right opposite to English which starts from left.
18936 -
حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

Ibn Hameed told us that Salama has told that Ibn Ishaq has said : They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce, as people were trading at that time by ounces, so if less than one ounce then it's a number : God says :(Then they sold him for a paltry price, a handful of counted dirhams) which means it didn't reach the one ounce.

Hope my English is understood.

 

[TG123456]

Assalamo Alaikum. Peace be on you. Plz also note EDIT in above answer. Thanks.

Thank you very much for the kind wishes, my friend. I read over the answer, and will respond more tomorrow, inshAllah.

 

[TG123456]

Unfortunately i didn't find English source for the same which is from Tabari collections of tafsir, i'll translate it at my best.

Arabic starts from right opposite to English which starts from left.
18936 -
حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

Ibn Hameed told us that Salama has told that Ibn Ishaq has said : They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce, as people were trading at that time by ounces, so if less than one ounce then it's a number : God says :(Then they sold him for a paltry price, a handful of counted dirhams) which means it didn't reach the one ounce.

Hope my English is understood.

Hi FearGod, thank you for your answer. Your English definitely is understandable, and I am very grateful you translated for me.

Can you also please translate the rest of 18936?

- حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

قال أبو جعفر : والصواب من القول في ذلك أن يقال : إن الله تعالى ذكره أخبر أنهم باعوه بدراهم معدودة غير موزونة ، ولم يحد مبلغ ذلك بوزن ولا عدد ، ولا وضع عليه دلالة في كتاب ولا خبر من الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم . وقد يحتمل أن يكون كان عشرين ويحتمل أن يكون كان اثنين وعشرين وأن يكون كان أربعين ، وأقل من ذلك وأكثر ، وأي ذلك كان ، فإنها كانت معدودة [ ص: 16 ] غير موزونة ; وليس في العلم بمبلغ وزن ذلك فائدة تقع في دين ، ولا في الجهل به دخول ضر فيه . والإيمان بظاهر التنزيل فرض ، وما عداه فموضوع عنا تكلف علمه .

وقوله : ( وكانوا فيه من الزاهدين ) يقول تعالى ذكره : وكان إخوة يوسف في يوسف من الزاهدين ، لا يعلمون كرامته على الله ، ولا يعرفون منزلته عنده ، فهم مع ذلك يحبون أن يحولوا بينه وبين والده ، ليخلو لهم وجهه منه ، ويقطعوه عن القرب منه ، لتكون المنافع التي كانت مصروفة إلى يوسف دونهم ، مصروفة إليهم .

وبنحو الذي قلنا في ذلك قال أهل التأويل .

ذكر من قال ذلك :

Thank you so much!

 

[FearGod]

Hi FearGod, thank you for your answer. Your English definitely is understandable, and I am very grateful you translated for me.

Can you also please translate the rest of 18936?

- حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

قال أبو جعفر : والصواب من القول في ذلك أن يقال : إن الله تعالى ذكره أخبر أنهم باعوه بدراهم معدودة غير موزونة ، ولم يحد مبلغ ذلك بوزن ولا عدد ، ولا وضع عليه دلالة في كتاب ولا خبر من الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم . وقد يحتمل أن يكون كان عشرين ويحتمل أن يكون كان اثنين وعشرين وأن يكون كان أربعين ، وأقل من ذلك وأكثر ، وأي ذلك كان ، فإنها كانت معدودة [ ص: 16 ] غير موزونة ; وليس في العلم بمبلغ وزن ذلك فائدة تقع في دين ، ولا في الجهل به دخول ضر فيه . والإيمان بظاهر التنزيل فرض ، وما عداه فموضوع عنا تكلف علمه .

وقوله : ( وكانوا فيه من الزاهدين ) يقول تعالى ذكره : وكان إخوة يوسف في يوسف من الزاهدين ، لا يعلمون كرامته على الله ، ولا يعرفون منزلته عنده ، فهم مع ذلك يحبون أن يحولوا بينه وبين والده ، ليخلو لهم وجهه منه ، ويقطعوه عن القرب منه ، لتكون المنافع التي كانت مصروفة إلى يوسف دونهم ، مصروفة إليهم .

وبنحو الذي قلنا في ذلك قال أهل التأويل .

ذكر من قال ذلك :

Thank you so much!

The rest is the opinion of Abu Jafaar about the saying of Ibn Ishaq.

 

[TG123456]

The rest is the opinion of Abu Jafaar about the saying of Ibn Ishaq.

Thank you, my friend. Can you please translate what he said?

 

[FearGod]

The rest is the opinion of Abu Jafaar about the saying of Ibn Ishaq.

In short his opinion that the verse is left to be subjective as no fixed number of dirhams were mentioned nor a fixed weight, so any number can be assumed since it wasn't mention in the quran or by the prophet.

It's long and exact translation will be a hard job.

 

[TG123456]

In short his opinion that the verse is left to be subjective as no fixed number of dirhams were mentioned nor a fixed weight, so any number can be assumed since it wasn't mention in the quran or by the prophet.

It's long and exact translation will be a hard job.

Salaam Alaikum and thank you for the translation, as well as explanation of what Ibn Jaafar wrote.

Arabic starts from right opposite to English which starts from left.
18936 -
حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

Ibn Hameed told us that Salama has told that Ibn Ishaq has said : They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce, as people were trading at that time by ounces, so if less than one ounce then it's a number : God says :(Then they sold him for a paltry price, a handful of counted dirhams) which means it didn't reach the one ounce.

Hope my English is understood.

I see in this tafsir that people traded at that time by ounces, but not that dirhams or coins were not used.
"They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce" doesn't say that instead of coins being used, weights were. The explanation says there was a price that was below one ounce, and Joseph was sold for that. Nowhere does it say that ounces were used instead of coins.

If you go to grocery store and buy grapes, chances are they will be sold by weight. You will pay less of a price for kilogram than you would pay for two.

Neither of the commentaries stated that the Ancient Egyptians were not using dirhams to trade. Are you aware of any that state this?

 

[TG123456]

Peace be on you. Good to hear. Thanks God.

Thank you, my friend.

== The truth of a Prophet can be checked through various means; How people in time of a Prophet recognize him?....

I think that his words are definitely worth checking out to see if he is a prophet or not.

== If latter people changed things in Bible, it does not mean Jesus (a.s.) was not right.....

True, unless the Bible accurately records what he did say.

== If few items are not well understood through current knowledge (which is on going process; sometimes it contradict previous findings), it does not mean Muhammad (s.a.w.) was not right....

No, but if some things he said can be proven to be wrong, then we know he was.

== To us, during the evolution of religion, Jesus (a.s.) appeared at appropriate time but his message of reform was for children of Israel. Jews of the time had gone hard, he came to remind them softness. He was not son of God, he was a righteous human Prophet. His teaching was time-bound. His fatherless birth was reminder that now house of Prophethood was going to change. .He explained second comings when he said John the baptist as Elijah. He foretold about coming of Muhammad (s.a.w.).

I know this is what Islam teaches. Where do you believe Jesus foretold the coming of Muhammad?

As I said, Christianity was right.
After coming of Islam,in it is the last model of divine teaching but if its message has not reached to anyone properly, then according to Quran they should at least continue to practice their own religion with true spirit.

I don't see how both Christianity and Islam can be correct. Christianity teaches Jesus is God and Son of God. Islam teaches he was a good prophet.
Christianity teaches Jesus died on the cross and resurrected after 3 days. Islam teaches he was not crucified.
There are some other differences, though they are more minor.

[2:63]Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

The essence of all religions is same; Rights of God and rights of creation.

[42:14] He has prescribed for you the religion which He enjoined on Noah, and which We have revealed to thee, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus, saying, ‘Remain steadfast in obedience, and be not divided therein. Hard upon the idolaters is that to which thou callest them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases, and guides to Himself him who turns to Him.’

Islam is the full version.

[5:4] "........This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour upon you and have chosen for you Islam as religion......."

Ref: alislam.org/quran

Religions have many things in common, one of them is to love God and love others. However, there are some major differences, like between Christianity and Islam. One is true and other other false, unless both are false.

Thus for a true seeker, there is no question of eternal Hell.

The Hell is not eternal according to Quran, it is correctional place.

Where in the Quran is it written that hell is not eternal, and is a place of correction?

If this is true, there is no incentive for anyone to live a good life or follow God... everyone will eventually be "corrected", if I understand what you have said correctly (if not, I apologize). What happens to people after they have been corrected in hell? Do they go to Paradise? Cease to exist?

The best way to find truth is to ask God directly, people have continued to pray for sometimes and they have been told by God in certain way which satisfy them.

How can this be true, if He tells people different things? There are Muslims who claim God tells them Islam is correct, and Christians who say Christianity is correct.

QUOTE

Egyptian paper: Coins found bearing name of Joseph

The newspaper said the discovery countered claims by some historians that coins were not used for trade in Egypt at the time the Bible records Joseph and the Israelites migrated there.



Those historians have argued that trade was done by barter.

.........

But researchers told the newspaper the minting dates of the coins in the cache have been matched to the period in which Joseph was recorded to be in Egypt.

“A thorough examination revealed that the coins bore the year in which they were minted and their value, or effigies of the pharaohs [who ruled] at the time of their minting. Some of the coins are from the time when Joseph lived in Egypt, and bear his name and portrait,” said the newspaper report.


Read more at Egyptian paper: Coins found bearing name of Joseph
wwwDOTwndDOTcom/2009/09/111091/

SLIDESHOW @ coins in the time of joseph - Google Search

Also @

Archeologists find 'Joseph-era' coins in Egypt - Middle East - Jerusalem Post

Joseph Era Coins Found in Egypt - Defense/Middle East - News - Arutz Sheva

egyptian history websites joseph coins - Yahoo Search Results

===============================================================

Thank you for these links. The story is an interesting one, although other scholars have expressed skepticism with these claims.
For example, the researcher did not state the time that Joseph is believed to have lived in and from when these coins were dated. It is strange that a scholar who was dating archaeological material would not have stated what it dates to.
The article states that the coins have had engravings of Pharaohs on one side, and dates on the other. Was Joseph a Pharaoh? If so, it would mean he would have taken part in the polytheistic religious rituals that the Pharaohs were known to lead their people in.
Daniel O McLellan who looked at the pictures of these coins, stated he recognized them and that they are scarabs... which were used for decorations.
The author of the article wrote that writing was during early stages when these coins were made, yet we know that by the time Joseph is believed to have lived in Egypt by most historians, writing already had been around and was quite advanced.

Joseph-Era Egyptian “Coins” | Daniel O. McClellan
Evidence for the Biblical Joseph Discovered? | PaleoBabble

Evangelicals skeptical about 'Joseph coins'
| Christian Examiner Newspapers


Do you know if this article or if Dr Thabet's findings were published in any scholarly journals?

One humbly prays and hopes now there is nothing which stops you to meet the truth. As the initial followers of Prophets see his truth while things point to his truth................I would say: When the Sun is at horizon, to say it is the Sun, it is not faith. Before Sun rises, light and nature lead the inner eyes of would-be disciples and companions to recognize the truth.........There was Christian scholar Warqa bin Noufal who recognized that Muhammad (s.a.w.) was going to be the Prophet. Warqa passed away before the revelation-based claim of Prophet (s.a.w.); it is faith which sees through many curtains.

===============================================================
More about Prophet Joseph (a.s.) and lessons @
The Holy Quran
wwwDOTalislamDOTorg/quran/tafseer/?page=1134&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

===============================================================

Thank you for sharing your beliefs. At the current moment, I am still not ready to accept that either the Quran is God's unchanged Word, or that Muhammad was His prophet.

Good wishes to you and your dear ones.

You also, my friend.

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum and thank you for the translation, as well as explanation of what Ibn Jaafar wrote.

Arabic starts from right opposite to English which starts from left.
18936 -
حدثنا ابن حميد ، قال : حدثنا سلمة ، عن ابن إسحاق ، قال : باعوه ولم يبلغ ثمنه الذي باعوه به أوقية ، وذلك أن الناس كانوا يتبايعون في ذلك الزمان بالأواقي ، فما قصر عن الأوقية فهو عدد ; يقول الله : ( وشروه بثمن بخس دراهم معدودة ) أي لم يبلغ الأوقية .

Ibn Hameed told us that Salama has told that Ibn Ishaq has said : They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce, as people were trading at that time by ounces, so if less than one ounce then it's a number : God says :(Then they sold him for a paltry price, a handful of counted dirhams) which means it didn't reach the one ounce.

Hope my English is understood.

I see in this tafsir that people traded at that time by ounces, but not that dirhams or coins were not used.
"They sold him with a price not reaching one ounce" doesn't say that instead of coins being used, weights were. The explanation says there was a price that was below one ounce, and Joseph was sold for that. Nowhere does it say that ounces were used instead of coins.

If you go to grocery store and buy grapes, chances are they will be sold by weight. You will pay less of a price for kilogram than you would pay for two.

Neither of the commentaries stated that the Ancient Egyptians were not using dirhams to trade. Are you aware of any that state this?

Did you read my post about the origin for the word dirham according to some arabic sources.
Question about 12:20 | Page 2 | ReligiousForums.com

 

[TG123456]

Did you read my post about the origin for the word dirham according to some arabic sources.
Question about 12:20 | Page 2 | ReligiousForums.com

Salaam Alaikum, and my apologies for not responding sooner. I see that the origin is to cause pleasure and it was compared to a soothing cream. I don't see how this applies to either the verse or the hadith you cited. Can you please elaborate?

Here are some Quran dictionary definitions I found of the word:


Dictionary of the Quran
1122. DARAHIM ‘Dirham (silver coins)’12:20 دَرَاهِمَ ( د ر ه م )
EXPLANATORY DICTIONARY-3


Dirham
a silver coin.
Islamic Terms Dictionary | References | Qur'an & Hadith | Alim.org


Dirham
A silver coin of the Prophet's time weighing a little more than 4 grams. Until Arab coinage in the eighties of the Hijrah century, the one in use was of foreign origin.
Locally, a Dirham was made up of about 6 Danaq, which was made up of 8-10 Sha`irah. This meant a Dirham had roughly 50-60 Sha`irah or Habbah; Habbah itself being grains of barley.
The Prophet said,
تَعِسَ عَبْدُ الدِّينَارِ وَالدِّرْهَمِ وَالْقَطِيفَةِ وَالْخَمِيصَةِ، إِنْ أُعْطِىَ رَضِىَ، وَإِنْ لَمْ يُعْطَ لَمْ يَرْضَ - صحيح البخارى
“Destroyed be the slave of Dinar and Dirham, destroyed be the slave of cloth and mantle: if he is given he is satisfied, if not given he is not satisfied.”
Dirham دِرهَم - Islamic Encyclopedia

Dirham
a silver coin
Islamic Dictionary, glossary, arabic words meanings

Lane's Arabic Lexicon on page 876 also defines the dirham as a silver coin.
Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum, and my apologies for not responding sooner. I see that the origin is to cause pleasure and it was compared to a soothing cream. I don't see how this applies to either the verse or the hadith you cited. Can you please elaborate?

Here are some Quran dictionary definitions I found of the word:


Dictionary of the Quran
1122. DARAHIM ‘Dirham (silver coins)’12:20 دَرَاهِمَ ( د ر ه م )
EXPLANATORY DICTIONARY-3


Dirham
a silver coin.
Islamic Terms Dictionary | References | Qur'an & Hadith | Alim.org


Dirham
A silver coin of the Prophet's time weighing a little more than 4 grams. Until Arab coinage in the eighties of the Hijrah century, the one in use was of foreign origin.
Locally, a Dirham was made up of about 6 Danaq, which was made up of 8-10 Sha`irah. This meant a Dirham had roughly 50-60 Sha`irah or Habbah; Habbah itself being grains of barley.
The Prophet said,
تَعِسَ عَبْدُ الدِّينَارِ وَالدِّرْهَمِ وَالْقَطِيفَةِ وَالْخَمِيصَةِ، إِنْ أُعْطِىَ رَضِىَ، وَإِنْ لَمْ يُعْطَ لَمْ يَرْضَ - صحيح البخارى
“Destroyed be the slave of Dinar and Dirham, destroyed be the slave of cloth and mantle: if he is given he is satisfied, if not given he is not satisfied.”
Dirham دِرهَم - Islamic Encyclopedia

Dirham
a silver coin
Islamic Dictionary, glossary, arabic words meanings

Lane's Arabic Lexicon on page 876 also defines the dirham as a silver coin.
Arabic-English Lexicon by Edward William Lane

According to what Ibn Ishaq said that they weren't dealing with coins at that time but they used to give a value by weight instead of coins, so one ounce was given the value of 40 dirhams, IOW the same word was used before the invention of coins.

1. الدَّرهَمُ :
   الدَّرهَمُ : جزءٌ من اثنىْ عَشَرَ جزءا من الأوقية .
   و الدَّرهَمُ قطعة من فضةٍ مضْروبة للمُعاملة . والجمع : دراهم .
   المعجم: المعجم الوسيط
2. الدرهم البغلي:
   أو الوافي ، وهو ما يعادل 64 حبة شعير ، وبحسب الوزن ( 3 . 36 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
3. الدرهم الشرعي:
   ما يساوي حوالي 48 حبة شعير ، وهو ثلاثة أرباع الدرهم الصيرفي ، وبحسب الوزن ( 2 . 4 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
4. الدرهم الصيرفي:
   حوالي 54 حبة شعير ، وبحسب الوزن ( 3 . 2 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
5. الدرهم الطبري:
   نصف البغلي أي 32 شعير ، و ( 1 . 67 ) غراما من الفضة .

معنى كلمة الدرهم في معجم المعاني الجامع والمعجم الوسيط - معجم عربي عربي - صفحة 1

 

[TG123456]

According to what Ibn Ishaq said that they weren't dealing with coins at that time but they used to give a value by weight instead of coins, so one ounce was given the value of 40 dirhams, IOW the same word was used before the invention of coins.

1. الدَّرهَمُ :
   الدَّرهَمُ : جزءٌ من اثنىْ عَشَرَ جزءا من الأوقية .
   و الدَّرهَمُ قطعة من فضةٍ مضْروبة للمُعاملة . والجمع : دراهم .
   المعجم: المعجم الوسيط
2. الدرهم البغلي:
   أو الوافي ، وهو ما يعادل 64 حبة شعير ، وبحسب الوزن ( 3 . 36 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
3. الدرهم الشرعي:
   ما يساوي حوالي 48 حبة شعير ، وهو ثلاثة أرباع الدرهم الصيرفي ، وبحسب الوزن ( 2 . 4 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
4. الدرهم الصيرفي:
   حوالي 54 حبة شعير ، وبحسب الوزن ( 3 . 2 ) غراما من الفضة .
   المعجم: مصطلحات فقهية
5. الدرهم الطبري:
   نصف البغلي أي 32 شعير ، و ( 1 . 67 ) غراما من الفضة .

معنى كلمة الدرهم في معجم المعاني الجامع والمعجم الوسيط - معجم عربي عربي - صفحة 1

Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for the response. My apologies for not responding sooner.

In the text you translated from Ibn Ishaq, he said that Joseph was sold for a price less than one ounce, and that people used to deal in ounces. I didn't see the text anywhere saying that dirhams were not used. I also brought up the example of today, where we also buy some food by weight, like a pound of grapes. The fact we buy grapes by the pound does not mean that we don't use money to pay for them.

You pasted some more Arabic information below. Can you please translate it word for word for me, given that I don't speak Arabic and you do?

Thank you.

 

[FearGod]

Salaam Alaikum, and thank you for the response. My apologies for not responding sooner.

In the text you translated from Ibn Ishaq, he said that Joseph was sold for a price less than one ounce, and that people used to deal in ounces. I didn't see the text anywhere saying that dirhams were not used. I also brought up the example of today, where we also buy some food by weight, like a pound of grapes. The fact we buy grapes by the pound does not mean that we don't use money to pay for them.

You pasted some more Arabic information below. Can you please translate it word for word for me, given that I don't speak Arabic and you do?

Thank you.

If coins then the price will be fixed such as saying 20 dirhams, then it means 20 coins of dirhams but as saying few then that means it wasn't coins but is equivalent to few of them.

Translation is very hard for me, my apology.

 

[TG123456]

If coins then the price will be fixed such as saying 20 dirhams, then it means 20 coins of dirhams but as saying few then that means it wasn't coins but is equivalent to few of them.

I don't think I agree. If you read for example Yusuf Ali's commentary of 12:20, he states that Joseph was sold for a few dirhams but he doesn't specify how many.

20.The (Brethren) sold him for a miserable price -- for a few dirhams counted out:

C1657. Dirham: from Greek, drachma, a small silver coin, which varied in weight and value at different times and in different States. (R).

...وَكَانُواْ فِيهِ مِنَ الزَّاهِدِينَ ﴿٢٠﴾

in such low estimation did they hold him!

C1658. There was mutual deceit on both sides.

The Brethren had evidently been watching to see what happened to Joseph. when they saw the merchants take him up and hide him, they came to claim his price as a run away slave, but dared not haggle over the price, lest their object, to get rid of him, should be defeated.

The merchants were shrewd enough to doubt the claim in their own minds; but they dared not haggle lest they should lose a very valuable acquisition.

And so the most precious of human lives in that age was sold into slavery for a few silver pieces! (R).

Quran Arabic Surah (Sura) Yusuf, with English Translation & Commentary
(Tafsir) by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Recitation By Said Al Ghamdi MP3, Free Download

Nowhere did Yusuf Ali estimate how many dirhams Joseph was sold for, but it is clear from his commentary he believed Joseph was sold for a few silver coins.

Do you have a hadith that actually states that Joseph was not sold for a few coins or dirhams, or that people were not trading with coins at that time?

Translation is very hard for me, my apology.

No need to apologize, my friend. However if you want to present sources for me to look at as evidence, I can't comment on them until I know what they actually say. I speak Polish, and let's say I presented you with a Polish language article to back up my statement. It would be unreasonable for me to present it to you as evidence of my words, unless you knew what it says.

 

[paarsurrey]

Historically, the word "dirham" is derived from the name of a Greek coin, the Drachma (δραχμή); the Greek-speaking Byzantine Empire controlled the Levant and traded with Arabia, circulating the coin there in pre-Islamic times and afterward.
The English word "dinar" is the transliteration of the Arabic دينار (dīnār), which was borrowed via the Syriac dīnarā from the Greek δηνάριον (denárion), itself from the Latin dēnārius.
The history of the rupees traces back to Ancient India circa 6th century BC. Ancient India was the earliest issuers of coins in the world, along with the Chinese wen and Lydian staters. The term is from rūpya, a Sanskrit term for silver coin, from Sanskrit rūpá, beautiful form - Rupyakam. (Aup. adds: The gold coin was known as Swarna Mudra - Gold coin; Nishka was the copper coin).
(Wikipedia)

Thanks for providing the good information.
It means coin.

Regards

 

[TG123456]

Thanks for providing the good information.
It means coin.

Regards

If it means coin, then why would the Quran's author have stated that the Ancient Egyptians were using coins when they had none at that time?

 

[Tumah]

The people of Mecca didn't mint their own coins and would have used the currencies of the surrounding regions. Even early Islamic empire coins were based on the Persian coins of the time and featured Zoroastrian imagery alongside dedications to Allah (Muhammed was first mentioned during the reign of Abd al Malik.)

Persian and Byzantine designs were still being used for over 100 years AH though with Arabic dedications on the other side.

Incidentally:

Turcomans who ruled in Anatolia during the 13th century, inherited [the Star of David -Tum] from the Seljuk Turks. Islamic coins from the reign of Khalif Nasreddin Mahmoud bin Mohammad, following Turkish influence, sporting a double-headed eagle on one side and the Star of David on the other as early as year 1200.
-Wikipedia​

It just goes to show how far back the Zionist conspiracy against Islam goes.

 

[Augustus]

Incidentally:

Turcomans who ruled in Anatolia during the 13th century, inherited [the Star of David -Tum] from the Seljuk Turks. Islamic coins from the reign of Khalif Nasreddin Mahmoud bin Mohammad, following Turkish influence, sporting a double-headed eagle on one side and the Star of David on the other as early as year 1200.
-Wikipedia​

It just goes to show how far back the Zionist conspiracy against Islam goes.

The scribes probably drew them on centuries after the fact.

 

[Tumah]

The scribes probably drew them on centuries after the fact.

Well Jeremiah 8:8 does speak about those lying scribes. So I wouldn't be surprised.