Qualifications for the Messiah

[YoursTrue]

Although this is the Debate Forum, based on recent posts about a ('the') Messiah, I am asking a question. What qualifications must 'the' Messiah fill? For instance, I was wondering about Rabbi Schneerson. Some thought he was the Messiah and were waiting by his grave for him to come out. This makes me wonder -- do Jews believe the one filling the role of Messiah is to be resurrected?

 

[dybmh]

What qualifications must 'the' Messiah fill?

" In future time, the King Mashiach will arise and renew the Davidic dynasty, restoring it to its initial sovereignty. He will rebuild the [Beis Ha]Mikdash and gather in the dispersed remnant of Israel. Then, in his days, all the statutes will be reinstituted as in former times. We will offer sacrifices and observe the Sabbatical and Jubilee years according to all their particulars set forth in the Torah."

"If a king will arise from the House of David who delves deeply into the study of the Torah and, like David his ancestor, observes its mitzvos as prescribed by the Written Law and the Oral Law; if he will compel all of Israel to walk in [the way of the Torah] and repair the breaches [in its observance]; and if he will fight the wars of G‑d; — we may, with assurance, consider him Mashiach."

"If he succeeds in the above, builds the [Beis Ha]Mikdash on its site, and gathers in the dispersed remnant of Israel, he is definitely the Mashiach."

The Laws Concerning Mashiach - Chapters 11 & 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of the Rambam

 

[dybmh]

I was wondering about Rabbi Schneerson. Some thought he was the Messiah and were waiting by his grave for him to come out. This makes me wonder -- do Jews believe the one filling the role of Messiah is to be resurrected?

Not that I'm aware of. Here's the official position from Chabad on visiting the Rebbe's grave:

"Visiting the resting place of a tzaddik (righteous person) is an ancient Jewish tradition. Several reasons are given for the custom:

1. At any gravesite, you become more aware of your limited time on earth. Your heart is more open to prayer to G‑d, and so your prayers are accepted on high.
2. The burial place of a tzaddik is a holy place, just like the Western Wall in Jerusalem. It’s like a portal to the heavens.
3. A tzaddik’s presence can be felt at his gravesite just as it was felt during his lifetime. This itself can inspire you and carry you to an entirely different state.
4. At the resting place, it is easier to connect to the tzaddik’s soul above and to request his blessings, just as you would before his passing.​

It is important to remember that we are not praying to the tzaddik. Rather, we are asking that he pray along with us and plead on our behalf. "

What to Expect at the Ohel

 

[Salty Booger]

The Laws Concerning Mashiach - Chapters 11 & 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of the Rambam

Wow, that's quite the challenge.

 

[Trailblazer]

Although this is the Debate Forum, based on recent posts about a ('the') Messiah, I am asking a question. What qualifications must 'the' Messiah fill? For instance, I was wondering about Rabbi Schneerson. Some thought he was the Messiah and were waiting by his grave for him to come out. This makes me wonder -- do Jews believe the one filling the role of Messiah is to be resurrected?

All the major world religions are expecting a Messiah, a world redeemer, who will come in the End Times. Certain religious believers such as the Jews and Christians believe that this Messiah will meet their expectations and restore their religion to its former glory, and He will even vindicate their religion as being the one true religion. Obviously it is impossible that all the religions are right about what this Messiah will be like and what he will do, because these religions all have different expectations of this Messiah.

Bible prophecies can be interpreted in many different ways, so they can have many meanings, so they can be made to mean what people want them to mean so that Messiah will be what they want Him to be.

Below are two websites that cover the prophecies of the major religions and what they believe the Messiah will be.

“In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.”

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a great teacher from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great religion restoring, world uniting, peace bringing Messiah.”

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

 

[YoursTrue]

All the major world religions are expecting a Messiah, a world redeemer, who will come in the End Times. Certain religious believers such as the Jews and Christians believe that this Messiah will meet their expectations and restore their religion to its former glory, and He will even vindicate their religion as being the one true religion. Obviously it is impossible that all the religions are right about what this Messiah will be like and what he will do, because these religions all have different expectations of this Messiah.

Bible prophecies can be interpreted in many different ways, so they can have many meanings, so they can be made to mean what people want them to mean so that Messiah will be what they want Him to be.

Below are two websites that cover the prophecies of the major religions and what they believe the Messiah will be.

“In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.”

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a great teacher from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great religion restoring, world uniting, peace bringing Messiah.”

Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

Actually I haven't heard that anyone believes the Messiah will restore their religion to its former glory.

 

[Trailblazer]

Actually I haven't heard that anyone believes the Messiah will restore their religion to its former glory.

Now you have.
Jews believe that. I know because they have told me that when the Messiah comes the Torah will be restored and they will regain their position as God's chosen people... With all due respect, not all Jews believe that, but some do.

Unfortunately, history does not move backwards.

 

[Tumah]

Although this is the Debate Forum, based on recent posts about a ('the') Messiah, I am asking a question. What qualifications must 'the' Messiah fill? For instance, I was wondering about Rabbi Schneerson. Some thought he was the Messiah and were waiting by his grave for him to come out. This makes me wonder -- do Jews believe the one filling the role of Messiah is to be resurrected?

The qualifications of the Messiah are to be a male patrilineal descendant from the House of David (and of course to have a Jewish mother). To be very observant of the Written and Oral Law. To bring all the Jews back to following the Torah. To build the Temple. Gather the dispersed Jews back to Israel. And to cause the world to turn to the Jewish G-d.

Of course, there's no way to know his genealogy today, so for that we'll have to rely on his having fulfilled all the other things. And it does automatically exclude any Priests or Levites.

Rabbi Schneerson was the Grand Rabbi of Chabad/Lubavitch. Chabad/Lubavitch is one of the top two largest Hassidic groups in the world. During his lifetime, the Rabbi made great inroads in fulfilling some of the requirements the Messiah would fulfill, leading his followers to believe he was the Messiah. After his death, there remains a sub-group of that sect that still believes he will be resurrected to be the Messiah and another group who believes he hasn't even died.

The comparison of this belief to Christianity has been made many times. Of course, a key difference is that he actually worked to bring people closer to G-d and to Jewish Law, as opposed to closer to worshiping a man. Still, the nonsense about being resurrected is still close enough to Christianity to make everyone else uncomfortable around them (and bear in mind that even though they're the largest Hassidic sect, they're still a fraction of the entire Orthodox and even Hassidic world). And although there's not numbers on it, it's also not the entire sect who believes these things, just a large portion of them.

The Grand Rabbi of Chabad was very observant of the Written and Oral Law. He worked very hard to bring Jewish back to following Torah. He also put effort in brining non-Jews to turn to G-d. There had not been anyone as successful as he was in a very long time. So there was definitely reason to think he potentially the Messiah at the time. However, like Bar Kochba, partial fulfillment isn't enough and so he was disqualified with his death.

 

[Tumah]

Now you have.
Jews believe that. I know because they have told me that when the Messiah comes the Torah will be restored and they will regain their position as God's chosen people... With all due respect, not all Jews believe that, but some do.

Unfortunately, history does not move backwards.

Jews do not believe that we ever stopped being G-d's chosen people. I don't know what you were told, but either you didn't understand what you heard or someone didn't understand what they were telling you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Now you have.
Jews believe that. I know because they have told me that when the Messiah comes the Torah will be restored and they will regain their position as God's chosen people... With all due respect, not all Jews believe that, but some do.

Unfortunately, history does not move backwards.

Ok what was, by the way, their "former glory" if you know. Please describe it, if you will or can. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jews do not believe that we ever stopped being G-d's chosen people. I don't know what you were told, but either you didn't understand what you heard or someone didn't understand what they were telling you.

Yes, and I was wondering what trailblazer meant by "Jews believe that." They do? My family is Jewish for the most part, meaning born as Jews and some believe there will be no Messiah, they don't observe the kashruth laws, they don't go to synagogue, but they are "full blooded" born Jews, males also circumcized on the eighth day according to traditional observance. So that statement that "Jews believe that" made me wonder, they do?

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok what was, by the way, their "former glory" if you know. Please describe it, if you will or can. Thank you.

I meant that they will regain their position as God's chosen people, but according to Tumah they never lost that position.

 

[YoursTrue]

The qualifications of the Messiah are to be a male patrilineal descendant from the House of David (and of course to have a Jewish mother). To be very observant of the Written and Oral Law. To bring all the Jews back to following the Torah. To build the Temple. Gather the dispersed Jews back to Israel. And to cause the world to turn to the Jewish G-d.

Of course, there's no way to know his genealogy today, so for that we'll have to rely on his having fulfilled all the other things. And it does automatically exclude any Priests or Levites.

Rabbi Schneerson was the Grand Rabbi of Chabad/Lubavitch. Chabad/Lubavitch is one of the top two largest Hassidic groups in the world. During his lifetime, the Rabbi made great inroads in fulfilling some of the requirements the Messiah would fulfill, leading his followers to believe he was the Messiah. After his death, there remains a sub-group of that sect that still believes he will be resurrected to be the Messiah and another group who believes he hasn't even died.

The comparison of this belief to Christianity has been made many times. Of course, a key difference is that he actually worked to bring people closer to G-d and to Jewish Law, as opposed to closer to worshiping a man. Still, the nonsense about being resurrected is still close enough to Christianity to make everyone else uncomfortable around them (and bear in mind that even though they're the largest Hassidic sect, they're still a fraction of the entire Orthodox and even Hassidic world). And although there's not numbers on it, it's also not the entire sect who believes these things, just a large portion of them.

The Grand Rabbi of Chabad was very observant of the Written and Oral Law. He worked very hard to bring Jewish back to following Torah. He also put effort in brining non-Jews to turn to G-d. There had not been anyone as successful as he was in a very long time. So there was definitely reason to think he potentially the Messiah at the time. However, like Bar Kochba, partial fulfillment isn't enough and so he was disqualified with his death.

So there is really no big foundational agreement as to what constitutes 'the' Messiah. If I remember correctly, there were those following Moses of Crete. Many drowned listening to him. There is an interesting discussion about this at:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1992/october-1

 

[YoursTrue]

I meant that they will regain their position as God's chosen people, but according to Tumah they never lost that position.

So if I understand you correctly, you believe they are not God's chosen people anymore but will be later on.

 

[YoursTrue]

I meant that they will regain their position as God's chosen people, but according to Tumah they never lost that position.

So again, what was that glory you claim they had and lost and will regain as "God's chosen people"?

 

[YoursTrue]

I meant that they will regain their position as God's chosen people, but according to Tumah they never lost that position.

Ok who's right? You or Tumah?

 

[Trailblazer]

So if I understand you correctly, you believe they are not God's chosen people anymore but will be later on.

No, that is not what I believe. Correct me if I am wrong since I am not very proficient in the Bible, but according to the Old Testament, the Jews were God's chosen people.

I do not believe that God has chosen people, but one could say that those people who choose God are favored by God so they are the chosen people. By choosing God I mean recognizing God's Manifestation in the age one lives in, so when the Jews rejected Jesus as a Manifestation of God, I believe they fell out of God's favor.

 

[Trailblazer]

So again, what was that glory you claim they had and lost and will regain as "God's chosen people"?

I was not referring specifically to the Jews.

I said "Certain religious believers such as the Jews and Christians believe that this Messiah will meet their expectations and restore their religion to its former glory." From their perspective I do not think that these religious believers realize that their religion ever fell from glory, so I am only speaking from a Baha'i perspective. I do not believe that religions are ever restored, but rather they are renewed.

“All that lives, and this includes the religions, have springtime, a time of maturity, of harvest and wintertime. Then religion becomes barren, a lifeless adherence to the letter uninformed by the spirit, and man’s spiritual life declines. When we look at religious history, we see that God has spoken to men precisely at times when they have reached the nadir of their degradation and cultural decadence. Moses came to Israel when it was languishing under the Pharaoh’s yoke, Christ appeared at a time when the Jewish Faith had lost its power and culture of antiquity was in its death those. Muhammad came to a people who lived in barbaric ignorance at the lowest level of culture and into a world in which the former religions had strayed far away from their origins and nearly lost their identity. The Bab addressed Himself to a people who had irretrievably lost their former grandeur and who found themselves in a state of hopeless decadence. Baha’u’llah came to a humanity which was approaching the most critical phase of its history.” (Udo Schaefer, The Light Shineth in Darkness, p. 24)

 

[Trailblazer]

Ok who's right? You or Tumah?

That depends upon who you ask. Of course, each of us has our own position and we think we are right.

 

[YoursTrue]

The qualifications of the Messiah are to be a male patrilineal descendant from the House of David (and of course to have a Jewish mother). To be very observant of the Written and Oral Law. To bring all the Jews back to following the Torah. To build the Temple. Gather the dispersed Jews back to Israel. And to cause the world to turn to the Jewish G-d.

Of course, there's no way to know his genealogy today, so for that we'll have to rely on his having fulfilled all the other things. And it does automatically exclude any Priests or Levites.

Rabbi Schneerson was the Grand Rabbi of Chabad/Lubavitch. Chabad/Lubavitch is one of the top two largest Hassidic groups in the world. During his lifetime, the Rabbi made great inroads in fulfilling some of the requirements the Messiah would fulfill, leading his followers to believe he was the Messiah. After his death, there remains a sub-group of that sect that still believes he will be resurrected to be the Messiah and another group who believes he hasn't even died.

The comparison of this belief to Christianity has been made many times. Of course, a key difference is that he actually worked to bring people closer to G-d and to Jewish Law, as opposed to closer to worshiping a man. Still, the nonsense about being resurrected is still close enough to Christianity to make everyone else uncomfortable around them (and bear in mind that even though they're the largest Hassidic sect, they're still a fraction of the entire Orthodox and even Hassidic world). And although there's not numbers on it, it's also not the entire sect who believes these things, just a large portion of them.

The Grand Rabbi of Chabad was very observant of the Written and Oral Law. He worked very hard to bring Jewish back to following Torah. He also put effort in brining non-Jews to turn to G-d. There had not been anyone as successful as he was in a very long time. So there was definitely reason to think he potentially the Messiah at the time. However, like Bar Kochba, partial fulfillment isn't enough and so he was disqualified with his death.

My cousin, a doctor and researcher, married a non-Jew. They have a son. The synagogue in a progressive college city accepted his son as a Jew and he got bar-mitzvahed. I guess he is not in line for being the messiah, you think?